OK whos your favored suspect/s and why?

[Darryl Kenyon]

We have Mary Kelly, very drunk, entering her home with a man who had a carry-out with him.
It was raining, Kelly was very drunk, and was probably going to have some more alcohol in the comfort of her home.
Is it really likely that she would wander out again later?
I don't think so!

I don't know if Hutchinson got his days mixed up, or whether he was deliberately lying, but I do think his story is wrong.

Agreed , I think the answer is there with Blotchy or as a lesser alternative wide awake man or even someone who had reason to go into the court that night. Without my literature was it Mary Cox who was expecting a young man ?
Regards Darryl

[Harry D]

You see, that's of interest to me Harry, as I'm not familiar with him.

Off to check my C.J.Morely suspects book now.....

yeah some weird stuff with this character.

From what I remember, John Cleary (aka John Arnold, aka Denis Lynch) went into a newspaper office saying he'd been informed by a police inspector that Jack the Ripper's latest victim was found at Back Church Lane. Halfway through, he changed the story to an ex-member of the police force. When the reporters hurried to the murder site, Cleary did a runner. They didn't find anything at the site, but two days later the Pinchin St torso was found nearby (Back Church Lane runs into Pinchin Street).

When they eventually tracked Cleary down, he changed his story again to say that a man dressed as a soldier told him about the murder, and the only reason Cleary ran away is because his lodgings were closing shortly.

Just a curious tale all around. I also understand that another one of the Thames Torso murder sites was predicted before it happened.

[mpriestnall]

FWIW I believe Blotchy to be Jack and in cahoots with Astrakhan at Miller's Court.

Not wishing to complicate things but just my take.

[Ms Diddles]

From what I remember, John Cleary (aka John Arnold, aka Denis Lynch) went into a newspaper office saying he'd been informed by a police inspector that Jack the Ripper's latest victim was found at Back Church Lane. Halfway through, he changed the story to an ex-member of the police force. When the reporters hurried to the murder site, Cleary did a runner. They didn't find anything at the site, but two days later the Pinchin St torso was found nearby (Back Church Lane runs into Pinchin Street).

When they eventually tracked Cleary down, he changed his story again to say that a man dressed as a soldier told him about the murder, and the only reason Cleary ran away is because his lodgings were closing shortly.

Just a curious tale all around. I also understand that another one of the Thames Torso murder sites was predicted before it happened.

Ahhhh! Thanks for that, Harry!

That story does indeed ring a bell.

I recall reading something like that, but don't think I ever knew the name of the guy who reported the (at that time, at least) non-existent body.

It is indeed a curious tale, and worthy of further investigation.

I too am open to the idea that Jack and the Torso Killer could have been one and the same.

I'm not saying I believe that to definitely be the case, but it is a distinct possibility.

If this were indeed so, I wonder if it would slightly increase the possibility that some of the letters were legitimate.

There's something about the torso discovered in the Scotland Yard building site which seems congruent with the mocking tone and arrogance of the letter writer.

Merely idle musings on my part though (as usual!)

[Ms Diddles]

In answer to Abby's original question my suspect list (which for reasons which make sense to me if nobody else, I perceive as a kind of ripperological five a side team!) is something like this:

Starting line up:

Star Striker - Mr Unknown
Rest of the team - Kos, Bury, Druitt, Lech

On the Bench - Blotchy, Kaminsky / Cohen, Chapman, Fleming, Tumblety, Kelly..........

I tend to err on the side of caution and count people as "possibles " rather than eliminating them.

The exceptions to this are the ones where there is overwhelming evidence that they were elsewhere at the time (Sickert / PAV / Ostrog) or the plain silly ones (Van Gogh, Oscar Wilde etc).

[Abby Normal]

I suppose that I am no different to many/most (delete where applicable) posters on these forums, in that I think that there is a very significant specific factor in these murders, and when we critically analyse this specific factor, we make a decision relating to it, the fog lifts and we see the scenario that is presented to us.

Fisherman sees the case through the prism of the Lechmere/Cross interaction of the Mary Ann Nichols murder; proponents of Kosminski as the killer see the case via Anderson and the Swanson marginalia, and so it goes on.

I don't know for sure who the killer is, but I think that it is probably the man seen entering Mary Kelly's home by Mrs Cox.

The obstacle lying in the way of this scenario is clearly the evidence given by Hutchinson about seeing Kelly with "Astrakhan Man".

The evidence given by Hutchinson is problematic on so many levels, but what does the case look like if we discount Hutchinson?

We have Mary Kelly, very drunk, entering her home with a man who had a carry-out with him.
It was raining, Kelly was very drunk, and was probably going to have some more alcohol in the comfort of her home.
Is it really likely that she would wander out again later?
I don't think so!

I don't know if Hutchinson got his days mixed up, or whether he was deliberately lying, but I do think his story is wrong.

Fisherman wrote an excellent article on Hutchinson's story entitled "The Man Who Wasn't There" in The Examiner (Issue 5 - December 2010).
It's a forensic dismantling of Hutchinson's story, and leaves us with the image of Kelly entering Miller's Court with Blotchy, hours before her body was found.

So I tend to see the case via the prism of Hutchinson's story being false, but as Carl Sagan once said, "When the facts change, I change my mind".

great post barn
i totally agree with this.i go back and forth between blotchy and lech as imho the least weak suspects.
someone also wrote an article (icant remeber who) that compared hutches statement with other previous news stories and placed other peoples statements side by side with hutchs and it relly looked like hutch had made up his whole story using other peoples quotes from the news papers.

[Abby Normal]

Agreed , I think the answer is there with Blotchy or as a lesser alternative wide awake man or even someone who had reason to go into the court that night. Without my literature was it Mary Cox who was expecting a young man ?
Regards Darryl

prater i think?
wide awake man is almost certainly hutch though, no?
I have always wondered if the bethnal green botherer may have followed sarah lewis at distance, and saw her enter millers court, peaking his interest in it. perhaps he came around after wide awake man/ hutch left?

[Abby Normal]

From what I remember, John Cleary (aka John Arnold, aka Denis Lynch) went into a newspaper office saying he'd been informed by a police inspector that Jack the Ripper's latest victim was found at Back Church Lane. Halfway through, he changed the story to an ex-member of the police force. When the reporters hurried to the murder site, Cleary did a runner. They didn't find anything at the site, but two days later the Pinchin St torso was found nearby (Back Church Lane runs into Pinchin Street).

When they eventually tracked Cleary down, he changed his story again to say that a man dressed as a soldier told him about the murder, and the only reason Cleary ran away is because his lodgings were closing shortly.

Just a curious tale all around. I also understand that another one of the Thames Torso murder sites was predicted before it happened.

yup weird apparently predicted torso murders. jerry dunlop is the expert in this and has done alot of amazing research.

[Abby Normal]

FWIW I believe Blotchy to be Jack and in cahoots with Astrakhan at Miller's Court.

Not wishing to complicate things but just my take.

wouldnt it be more likely if anyone was in cahoots it would be blotchy and hutch? with blotchy as the ripper and hutch as look out and clearing his partner by his fake aman story? it would explain alot makes logistical sense.

[Abby Normal]

In answer to Abby's original question my suspect list (which for reasons which make sense to me if nobody else, I perceive as a kind of ripperological five a side team!) is something like this:

Starting line up:

Star Striker - Mr Unknown
Rest of the team - Kos, Bury, Druitt, Lech

On the Bench - Blotchy, Kaminsky / Cohen, Chapman, Fleming, Tumblety, Kelly..........

I tend to err on the side of caution and count people as "possibles " rather than eliminating them.

The exceptions to this are the ones where there is overwhelming evidence that they were elsewhere at the time (Sickert / PAV / Ostrog) or the plain silly ones (Van Gogh, Oscar Wilde etc).

hi didles we think alot alike. except i think the ripper more than likely has been named.with the first seven i mentioned i think its better than 50/50. throw in the rest like barnett, druitt, tumblety, flemming, richardson, jacob levy, bowyer etc and i think it goes up to eighty percent.

the cohen/ kaminsky/ kosminsky theory is too convoluted for me to even consider.

[Darryl Kenyon]

prater i think?
wide awake man is almost certainly hutch though, no?
I have always wondered if the bethnal green botherer may have followed sarah lewis at distance, and saw her enter millers court, peaking his interest in it. perhaps he came around after wide awake man/ hutch left?

Hi Abby, Its not certain Hutch was wide awake man. It is generally assumed he was but, for instance Hutch never mentioned seeing Sarah Lewis who most definitely saw Wide awake.
Regards Darryl

[etenguy]

with alot of new posters i think its time again to take a toll. whos your favored suspect? ill start. hutch and blotchy. then Chapman, Bury, Koz, Kelly, and Lech. whats yours?

Hi Abby

I wouldn't bet my shirt on any specific suspect - but if pushed, I would suggest Kosminski is just ahead of the pack. He was ID'd, the police spent resource watching him closely and top officials name him (together with Ostrog - lets discount him, and Druitt - who probably in my view has second place).

[Marie Jeanette Davies]

I think the Ripper was an unknown local man, someone who knew the streets of Whitechapel like the back of his hand. According to me, the most likely suspects are the Bethnal Green Botherer and Blotchy Face.

[GUT]

Mr U.N. Known by streets

Then those named by police, so Koz, Druitt, Tumblety (Mike Hawley’s work has raised my interest in him greatly) need to be cleared before we go looking at witnesses and famous people, after all what did they know that is lost to us. For personal reasons I have a great deal of interest in Druitt, family history says our family knew the answer and Druitt is the most likely to fit that bill, but no certainty.

Two who would jump the pack if they could be placed in London at the time are Kelly and Deeming, proven bad bastards and outside chance Deeming May have been known to my family so fit the family story.

[Abby Normal]

Mr U.N. Known by streets

Then those named by police, so Koz, Druitt, Tumblety (Mike Hawley’s work has raised my interest in him greatly) need to be cleared before we go looking at witnesses and famous people, after all what did they know that is lost to us. For personal reasons I have a great deal of interest in Druitt, family history says our family knew the answer and Druitt is the most likely to fit that bill, but no certainty.

Two who would jump the pack if they could be placed in London at the time are Kelly and Deeming, proven bad bastards and outside chance Deeming May have been known to my family so fit the family story.

thanks gut.
i thought kelly has definitely been placed in London. didnt he escape from an asylum in london right before the murders?