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  • VERY general question

    Out of all the suspects. Were they all there? Were they actually confirmed to be IN THE AREA during the murders or at the very least can be placed close by at the time? For instance, we know George Chapman was somewhat nearby so to speak. What about the others? Prince Albert Victor was out of the country at the time of some of the killings wasn't he? i could be wrong. I'm trying to figure out which we can eliminate by sheer common sense.

  • #2
    Originally posted by clark2710 View Post
    Out of all the suspects. Were they all there? Were they actually confirmed to be IN THE AREA during the murders or at the very least can be placed close by at the time? For instance, we know George Chapman was somewhat nearby so to speak. What about the others? Prince Albert Victor was out of the country at the time of some of the killings wasn't he? i could be wrong. I'm trying to figure out which we can eliminate by sheer common sense.
    William Henry Bury was in neighbouring Bow at the time. However owned a horse and cart so that wouldn't rule him out.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by John Wheat View Post

      William Henry Bury was in neighbouring Bow at the time. However owned a horse and cart so that wouldn't rule him out.
      ah kk wasn't he one of the witnesses? Or am i thinking of someone else?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by clark2710 View Post

        ah kk wasn't he one of the witnesses? Or am i thinking of someone else?
        You're thinking of someone else. Bury's the suspect that moved to Dundee shortly after Mary Kelly's death and murdered his former prostitute wife by strangulation then mutilated her abdomen before stuffing her in a box. Days later he went to the police. With a **** and bull story about how she died. It is of note that graffito was found at there flat stating that Jack the Ripper is in this cellar along with another similar message on another door. Although I forget the exact wording of the other graffito. Bury as a suspect is certainly worth a look.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by John Wheat View Post

          You're thinking of someone else. Bury's the suspect that moved to Dundee shortly after Mary Kelly's death and murdered his former prostitute wife by strangulation then mutilated her abdomen before stuffing her in a box. Days later he went to the police. With a **** and bull story about how she died. It is of note that graffito was found at there flat stating that Jack the Ripper is in this cellar along with another similar message on another door. Although I forget the exact wording of the other graffito. Bury as a suspect is certainly worth a look.
          ah kk thank you I would love to get a good list of the suspects that were actually known to be in the area around the time of the killings. Some of the suspects are suspects and may not have even been in the area.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by clark2710 View Post

            ah kk thank you I would love to get a good list of the suspects that were actually known to be in the area around the time of the killings. Some of the suspects are suspects and may not have even been in the area.
            Agreed some suspects were not even in the area. I know a lot about Bury but I am currently working away from home and do not have all my books etc on all the suspects with me at the moment. So would struggle at this time to accurately say which suspect was and wasn't in the area. However on this site there are people who have expert knowledge on a number of suspects. So I think it's best to leave them to comment on whether a specific suspect was in the area at the time. Cheers John

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            • #7
              Bury was certainly around Clark and is worthy of attention, as was Kosminski, Levy, Lechmere. Druitt, whilst not living in the area, was certainly within reach of the area of the murders. A couple of ‘suspects’ like Neill Cream and (I hate even mentioning the name) Van Gogh were definitely out of the country. Feigenbaum can’t be proven to have been in the country at the time but equally he can’t be proven to have been abroad at the time of the murders. James Kelly was around I believe (I’ll stand correcting if it’s been shown that he wasn’t)
              Regards

              Herlock



              “All conspiracy theories are the product of the subconscious attempt of an ignorant yet creative mind to counteract the fear of the unknown with the tales of fantasy.” Abhijit Naskar.

              “Conspiracy theorists, she knew, were paranoid by definition, and usually with good reason - they were indeed being watched, largely because they were standing on an upturned bucket, haranguing the sheeple with their wingnut delusions.” Mick Herron.

              ”The most confused you will ever get is when you try to convince your heart and spirit of something your mind knows is a lie.” Shannon L. Alder.

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              • #8
                Also, some people who were witnesses, or otherwise connected with the cases, like Cross/Lechmere and Joe Barnett, have recently been suggested, and we know for a fact they were in the area (given they were interviewed by the police at the time, but as witnesses or other sources of information). Tumblety, I believe, was in the area, though as I recall, it may be unclear if he was there for the entire series (forgive me, but I've forgotten the details of when it was he left London? I do believe there is some question as to whether or not he was detained on some critical dates, but that may, or may not, have been resolved?). A contemporary suspect, Pizer, was known to be in the area but was determined to have been at a family members house at the time (he was identified as "Leather Apron - a pre-JtR moniker for the Whitechapel murderer). Maybrick, of the Diary, has not been determined to have been in London on any of the critical dates, but similarly, has not be definitively located elsewhere either. And Walter Sickert (Patricia Cornwall's suggestion for JtR), was in France at the time, though she claims he could have come over by boat to commit the murders, and then gone back, but none of those journeys have been shown to have occurred.

                Basically, when it comes to JtR, showing that a suspect was elsewhere, is rarely considered a problem provided one can come up with a way to get them to London, and back to where they were. It is generally considered all the better if there is no proof of that journey, because that can then be used to show how clever he was. Same thing if the proffered solution was a contemporary individual, known to be in London, questioned by the police, and then considered as merely a witness - for only clever Jack could be so convincing of his innocence!

                - Jeff

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by clark2710 View Post
                  Out of all the suspects. Were they all there? Were they actually confirmed to be IN THE AREA during the murders or at the very least can be placed close by at the time? For instance, we know George Chapman was somewhat nearby so to speak. What about the others? Prince Albert Victor was out of the country at the time of some of the killings wasn't he? i could be wrong. I'm trying to figure out which we can eliminate by sheer common sense.
                  Apparently Kosminski wasn't all there.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mpriestnall View Post

                    Apparently Kosminski wasn't all there.
                    Good one.

                    c.d.

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                    • #11
                      And apparently Druitt came and went.

                      c.d.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by clark2710 View Post
                        Out of all the suspects. Were they all there? Were they actually confirmed to be IN THE AREA during the murders or at the very least can be placed close by at the time? For instance, we know George Chapman was somewhat nearby so to speak. What about the others? Prince Albert Victor was out of the country at the time of some of the killings wasn't he? i could be wrong. I'm trying to figure out which we can eliminate by sheer common sense.
                        not only was hutchinson known to be in the area, he lived around the corner from mary kelly in the victoria home and was following her around and lurking out side her house, confirmed by sarah lewis, on the night she was murdered.
                        "Is all that we see or seem
                        but a dream within a dream?"

                        -Edgar Allan Poe


                        "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                        quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                        -Frederick G. Abberline

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                          not only was hutchinson known to be in the area, he lived around the corner from mary kelly in the victoria home and was following her around and lurking out side her house,.....
                          Hi Abby.
                          If you recall, Hutchinson seemed to be in the Victoria Home when he gave his interview to the Central News journalist. He did give the Victoria Home as his residence to the police on the 12th, so on the 13th when he was interviewed he happened to say:
                          "I told one of the lodgers here about it yesterday,...."

                          So presumably he was in the Home, so then when he says:
                          "I walked about all night, as the place where I usually sleep was closed."
                          Where is his 'usual place'?

                          He doesn't say 'this place was closed', so it looks like he only began staying at the Victoria Home from Friday morning when the lodgings opened up.
                          Which means we don't know where he usually stayed.
                          Regards, Jon S.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

                            Hi Abby.
                            If you recall, Hutchinson seemed to be in the Victoria Home when he gave his interview to the Central News journalist. He did give the Victoria Home as his residence to the police on the 12th, so on the 13th when he was interviewed he happened to say:
                            "I told one of the lodgers here about it yesterday,...."

                            So presumably he was in the Home, so then when he says:
                            "I walked about all night, as the place where I usually sleep was closed."
                            Where is his 'usual place'?

                            He doesn't say 'this place was closed', so it looks like he only began staying at the Victoria Home from Friday morning when the lodgings opened up.
                            Which means we don't know where he usually stayed.
                            Ultimately, that is a minor point. He was proven to be lurking outside MJK's residence in the early hours of the morning of her murder, definitely lived locally and more importantly, was most likely the last person to have seen her alive. By modern standards, I'm certain he would have been treated as a person of interest by the police.

                            However, his coming forward (albeit delayed) to give his statement does somewhat suggest his innocence. The likelihood of the police tracking him down as a witness would have been slim one would imagine. So what benefit to him does giving his account provide? He most likely wanted to give the police the information he claimed was true to assist in the investigation. These type of behaviours have been seen before by killers who inject themselves into investigations. Ian Huntly springs to mind. His overly detailed description seems as if he is really trying too hard to promote the idea of a slightly flamboyant Jewish man as being the killer. This is what makes him suspicious to many.

                            I have a different theory which will be in my fictional book
                            "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
                            - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by erobitha View Post

                              Ultimately, that is a minor point. He was proven to be lurking outside MJK's residence in the early hours of the morning of her murder, definitely lived locally and more importantly, was most likely the last person to have seen her alive. By modern standards, I'm certain he would have been treated as a person of interest by the police.

                              However, his coming forward (albeit delayed) to give his statement does somewhat suggest his innocence. The likelihood of the police tracking him down as a witness would have been slim one would imagine. So what benefit to him does giving his account provide? He most likely wanted to give the police the information he claimed was true to assist in the investigation. These type of behaviours have been seen before by killers who inject themselves into investigations. Ian Huntly springs to mind. His overly detailed description seems as if he is really trying too hard to promote the idea of a slightly flamboyant Jewish man as being the killer. This is what makes him suspicious to many.

                              I have a different theory which will be in my fictional book
                              hi ero
                              good luck with your book! abberlines use of the word interogated seems to suggest there was some initial suspician, but that during the course of the conversation he came to beleive him. I think that having just heard at the inquest lewis account of hutch waiting there was probably the cause. although a few days later it seems hutch lost favor as a witness. IMHO it seems like abberline may have just come toview him as another time wasting attention seeker like packer and violenia.

                              however, could it simply be the case of a very astute detective just being fooled by one of histories craftiest serial killers? One could forgive the detective as it was so early in the history of serial killer cases, and folks just didnt have the experience in dealing with these type of the most elusive of killers.
                              "Is all that we see or seem
                              but a dream within a dream?"

                              -Edgar Allan Poe


                              "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                              quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                              -Frederick G. Abberline

                              Comment

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