Why not McCarthy ?

[Rubyretro]

...and also that once she was gone, then there would certainly be no hope of recovering the money owed.

....she had been living with one bloke (Joe), who had paid the rent, but had fallen on hard times. He was still around, and might possibly move back in (paying off the arrears) if he got a new job.

....she had to eat, and most probably bought all her food from his shop. Maybe she had aready paid off a credit note there, showing willingness.

...she was attractive and popular and maybe a new regular boyfriend would either move in or pay off the arrears...

....they were related in some way ( McCarthy's family seem to have been 'theatrical', and I think that Mary said that she had a relative on the stage. Maybe there was a link ?).

There are lots of possible reasons....

[Sally]

Yep..

..the proposition that MC let MJK stay in arrears without kicking her out because of his compassionate wife..

Or because:

The rent had been regular and on time in the past - so might be again. Many people fall on hard times, often temporary.

Kelly was an attractive prostitute who might be expected to make up the arrears over time. Her earning potential was probably better than for many prostitutes on the street.

Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

All quite reasonable explanations for the rent arrears.

Of course, there could be a more sinister explanation....

[Wade Aznable]

As Don Souden wrote in an essay for Ripper Notes eons ago, McCarthy chopped open the door to his own property when the police asked him to open it in order to not be the only man with a key to the room. Don postulates that McCarthy may, in fact, have entered the room to take things out prior to sending Bowyer to fetch the police.

Hi Tom,
I've read Don Souden's article recently (I bought myself some old issues of RN on a good offer on Amazon, and that particular issue was in the stock): you mean his proposition that McCarthy was pimping Kelly and since she loved to drink he made sure to have his slice of her earnings by giving her a locked box to put coins in (sorry, I don't know the english word for that: just like Gene I'm from mainland Europe!), and that this box was what he had recovered, thus explaining the minutes it took to him to reach the police station and the following discrepancies in his inquest deposition? After all, "pimping" (or, better, receving earnings from other people prostituting themselves) was a serious crime, and sure as hell MC didn't want to be connected to such activity.
Quite a fascinating idea, even if a little bit too complicated (if we have to follow Occam, and I usually do, the proposition that MC let MJK stay in arrears without kicking her out because of his compassionate wife posted before by another poster rings easier... and we all know how convincing a wife can be ).

Best regards,
W

[Gene Lewis]

That's OK Sally... I'm holding tight my silk thread: let's go back now to our Mr McCarthy and his damp grey silhouette...

[Sally]

Hi Sally,
Absolutely agree, in the last few weeks[ or years even] we have been thrashing about for plausible suspects, away from the Druitt's, the kosminsky's ,Cutbush, Tumblety, Barnett, Maybrick etc, and have introduced a new brigade, which includes Hutchinson . Le-grand, Fleming, and more recently..Cross, McCarthy, and now Diemschutz[ yours truly].
The truth of the matter is the killings ceased after the death of MJK, giving an impression that she was possibly the cause of it, a speculation that was around a hundred years ago.
That being the case taking everything into account the best suspect has to be Joseph Fleming, or a unknown from her past, that had a real grudge against her, and women of her kind, and the murders ceased when she was dead.
I believe also that we should not discount Barnett, or even his brother Danny.
Regards Richard.

Hi Richard - you make some good points. I agree that Fleming must remain on our radar (regardless of silly height arguments) conidering his history with Kelly, his continued association with Kelly, his whereabouts at the time of her death, and his later history. He's a strong contender for Kelly's death in my view and if one considers that Kelly's murderer was also responsible for the others attributed to the Whitechapel Fiend; then by extension Fleming has to be in the frame for the Ripper's mantle. Insofar as I entertain the prospect of a particular suspect, he's not bad . Not the only possibility by far, but not bad.

As for the Barnetts - I'd like to know where Joseph went for that 10 years. I have some ideas about that, but that's all; such evidence as there is, is too ephemeral to date. Perhaps we'll never know. I don't consider him to be a likely suspect; and hadn't really thought about Danny; although like his brother, he appears to have led a respectable and mundane life up to his death - certainly there are no indications that either of them were anything but normal from the records.

But I think I digress. I think Gene's thread has been well and truly diverted. Sorry Gene.

[richardnunweek]

Hi Sally,
Absolutely agree, in the last few weeks[ or years even] we have been thrashing about for plausible suspects, away from the Druitt's, the kosminsky's ,Cutbush, Tumblety, Barnett, Maybrick etc, and have introduced a new brigade, which includes Hutchinson . Le-grand, Fleming, and more recently..Cross, McCarthy, and now Diemschutz[ yours truly].
The truth of the matter is the killings ceased after the death of MJK, giving an impression that she was possibly the cause of it, a speculation that was around a hundred years ago.
That being the case taking everything into account the best suspect has to be Joseph Fleming, or a unknown from her past, that had a real grudge against her, and women of her kind, and the murders ceased when she was dead.
I believe also that we should not discount Barnett, or even his brother Danny.
Regards Richard.

[Sally]

Hey Richard - you've discovered a new suspect!

I think because there are so many ambiguities in the case, and so much unexplained, there is a lot of room for speculation. And I guess at the end of the day, that's what keeps us all interested ultimately - not that we can speculate at will, I mean - but that one avenue of enquiry might one day yield some real answers.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
Its amazing how one can invent a suspect out of thin air.
A lot of Casebook believe Tabram, and Stride ,were the work of a different assailant, so we have a perfect candidate in Louis Diemschutz.
A] He discovered the body of Stride.
B] He had transport
C] He stabled his horse in George yard.
Motive?.. we could invent one,[ ha ha] maybe she was in his way when he entered the yard, so he jumped down, and lost it, he may simply had a nasty temper, rather like the frenzied attack on Tabram would imply.
I am not losing it ...really.
Regards Richard.

[Sally]

Hello Sally. Would you perhaps have "MJK"'s bio handy? It could save a good bit of time.

Cheers.
LC

If only I did, Lynn.

[lynn cates]

no worse

Hello Richard. Well, he is no worse than some others.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

bio

Hello Sally. Would you perhaps have "MJK"'s bio handy? It could save a good bit of time.

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hi Dave

If said blackmail then became intolerable, then MJK's death as a copycat (perhaps rage makes it an OTT copycat) might be considered...

That`ll explain the roaring fire. The killer(s) would have needed the light of the fire to read all the Inquest reports in all the newspapers they must have taken into Millers Court to ensure that Kelly`s injuries matched the previous victims.

Seriously though, Dave. When we talk of copy cats, who on earth, other than the Ripper, could do that to a woman? We`re not talking poisoning, strangling or shooting, this is the worst kind of crime imagineable and only a few nutters out there do it. 99% of the sad sacks that are known as serial killers don`t even come close to the mess that our messed up guy inflicted.

Whoever copy cat`d Kelly must have been some kind of Ripperologist as he certainly croseed every T and dotted every I in the few weeks in which he had to prepare.

[richardnunweek]

Hi Sally,
Mr Wilton [ sexton local church] waived the funeral expenses.
Hi Lynn,
No the overkill would have been a desire to give the police no doubt that this was a Ripper act, being that,.. it was a bit close to home,and he would never be suspected.
My suggestion was not a vague connection to a victim, but a very ''tongue in cheek'' that McCarthy was the actual Ripper...and Kelly was silenced because she saw him with a victim, and was killed.
Who else knew the residents habits, the routine of the court, knowledge when Mary was alone[ the back window of his shop looked over the court.]
The police would never have suspected a well known local like McCarthy, being the killer , and leaving his victim in one of the rooms.
Like Cross he had discovered a body, albeit second to Bowyer, however sent him to the room, and rather like another so called suspect Hutchinson, he assisted the police throughout the initial investigation.
So he is a suspect, by that reasoning. is he not...?
Regards Richard.

[Gene Lewis]

Why couln't McCarthy have entered prior to "his man Bowyer", fort fetching something he 'd forgot in n°13 some hours before and would accuse him ?

[Sally]

Easy..

I know -

McCarthy, Barnett and - ahem - 'Kelly' were in it together. All Fenian sympathisers (we could cast this net a bit wider if we tried hard enough). After all, the room appears to have been rented by the 'Kellys', with the assumption that Barnett was also called Kelly and was Kelly's (confusing myself here) husband. An assumed name, obviously.

Then there's the odd fashion in which McCarthy distances himself from the 'Kellys'. He gives the distinct impression that he didn't know them very well. Was vaguely aware of them at best.

Yet - how is this possible? He waived Kelly's rent (another clue) and paid for her funeral. Hmm.

And then there's the fact that Barnett disappeared for a decade (used to be more, but then he turned up in the records). One can only presume that he was living under (another) assumed name during this time. Why? Well, it could be argued to escape from the memory of the horrific murder of his girlfriend. If she even was his girlfriend. But maybe not. Maybe he needed to disappear for a bit.

Then, when he does reappear, he's been living with a woman named 'Louisa' since 1888. How?

Unless he was very quick off the mark after Kelly's death - OR - 'Louisa' and 'Marie Jeanette' were one and the same and the mutilated woman in the bed was one of the unamed 'unfortunates' staying with Kelly.

It explains everything. I rest my case.