Window of Time for Nichols murder

[Fisherman]

Was there no drain of any sort there ?! Are you sure of that, or this is just what you think ?!

For a moment, you have mentioned that there are too many certainties on the board.

If he didn't get rid of the weapon, then for me at least, Lechmere was not the Ripper.


The Baron

We know for sure that he was not searched, so its kind of hard to say. You should also be aware of the degree of self-certainty some of these characters display. I don't find it in any way odd if a narcissistic and psychopathic killer felt very sure that he was untouchable, since we have so many examples of this very thing. If Lechmere was the killer, then regardless of whether he had thew weapon on his person or not, we know that he searched out the police on bhis ow account and was included in the inquest. He would not have been afraid to put his head in the lions mouth! But in the end, you must make your mind up yourself, of course. As for drains in Bucks Row, they would have been searched and any weapon would have been found, so if that's a decider for you, then decide away!

[Herlock Sholmes]

Have another look at what Jason Payne-James says in the docu, Herlock. "I don't think that he would have had much, on in fact any blood necessarily visible on his person".

What happens to your "almost certainly" now? It withers away. Poof.

There are way too many "almost certainties" contaminating the boards.

Lechmere couldn’t have been anything like certain of that in the dark though. As Payne-Jones can’t be certain.

[Herlock Sholmes]

A gutter is not a hole in the ground, Baron, it is the lowering where the pavement meets the road. If there had been a drain of sorts there, it would have been searched by the police. No weapon was left on the scene, I think we must accept that.

I’d just like to take this opportunity to say that I agree with you 100% on this Fish

[Fisherman]

Lechmere couldn’t have been anything like certain of that in the dark though. As Payne-Jones can’t be certain.

Payne-James. And he said nothing at all about any certainties, he only pointed out that there would not necessarily be any blood visible on Lechmere. Only yesterday, you spoke of a murderer who would not want to spend a lot of time in the streets since he was "covered in blood", so I can see where you are coming from. Rest assured, though, that he HAD TO walk the streets for at least ten minutes in combination with one or two of the murders regardless where he lived - the victims were not all killed in the same address, and so there WERE considerable stretches he must have walked in public after the murders. I accordingly find it likely that he never had much blood visible on his person, or he was totally nuts. And I don't think he was.
Could he be sure of there being no blood on his person? Let's ask another question - would an uncertainty in that department stop him from killing? And he was of course able to check his own hands and clothing before he engaged Paul in conversation, satisfying himself that he could see no blood himself.
In the end, it is a question about whether a person is willing to take risks or not. And if I was to point to a born risk-taker, I could well choose to point out anybody brazen enough to kill and eviscerate out in the open streets.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Was there no drain of any sort there ?! Are you sure of that, or this is just what you think ?!

For a moment, you have mentioned that there are too many certainties on the board.

If he didn't get rid of the weapon, then for me at least, Lechmere was not the Ripper.


The Baron

Im sure that there is someone on the boards that has some specific knowledge about the drainage system in late Victorian London but we all know that sanitation was horrendous. I’d have to ask though, why would he go to the trouble of getting rid of the knife when it would have been far simpler just to have walked away (sorry Fish) and kept the knife?

[Fisherman]

I’d just like to take this opportunity to say that I agree with you 100% on this Fish

I´ll copy it and put it on the fridge door!

[Fisherman]

Im sure that there is someone on the boards that has some specific knowledge about the drainage system in late Victorian London but we all know that sanitation was horrendous. I’d have to ask though, why would he go to the trouble of getting rid of the knife when it would have been far simpler just to have walked away (sorry Fish) and kept the knife?

You make a fair point here, Herlock. And I don't mean about walking away. I mean that after the murder, he would have stashed the knife on his person. Then Paul arrived. After that, there was never any opportunity to do away with it, and he could not know that Paul would suggest seeking out the police. So he would be stuck with the knife (sorry about the pun) and a growing risk situation.

[The Baron]

As for drains in Bucks Row, they would have been searched and any weapon would have been found,

Why is that, this is only an assumption, would they search the whole drain system for a Knife ?!


I still want to know if there was any drain system where Nichols was murdered. a gutter will lead to one, and even if they searched, they may not find it.

I would think, if Lechmere was the ripper, he will find the right chance to get rid of the weapon, before he met the policeman.


The Baron

[Fisherman]

Why is that, this is only an assumption, would they search the whole drain system for a Knife ?!

Because there had been a horrendous murder in the street. And they would search the drain, not the whole system. A knife wouldn't go anywhere.

I still want to know if there was any drain system where Nichols was murdered. a gutter will lead to one, and even if they searched, they may not find it.

I would think, if Lechmere was the ripper, he will find the right chance to get rid of the weapon, before he met the policeman.

The Baron

Like I said, he did not throw it away at the murder site. It WOULD have been found if he did. So what remains is the possibility that he threw it away after leaving Nichols, and this he did in Pauls company. Meaning that there was no option to take care of it.

Nothing is written in stone, of course, but this is the balance of probabilities the way I see it.

[The Baron]

Because there had been a horrendous murder in the street. And they would search the drain, not the whole system. A knife wouldn't go anywhere.




Like I said, he did not throw it away at the murder site. It WOULD have been found if he did. So what remains is the possibility that he threw it away after leaving Nichols, and this he did in Pauls company. Meaning that there was no option to take care of it.

Nothing is written in stone, of course, but this is the balance of probabilities the way I see it.

So you think telling Mizen there is a policeman in Bucks Row waiting for him, without Paul hearing anything, is an easier solution than to get rid of the Knife in the drain system where Nichols was killed or all the way long to Mizen ?!


The Baron

[Wickerman]

Of course, if it went in the gutter!


The Baron

Do you mean down a drain?
A gutter is just a trough to collect water along the edge of the road.

[Wickerman]

Was there no drain of any sort there ?! Are you sure of that, or this is just what you think ?!

For a moment, you have mentioned that there are too many certainties on the board.

If he didn't get rid of the weapon, then for me at least, Lechmere was not the Ripper.


The Baron

I see you did mean drain

I can see a killer discarding the weapon if he hears or see's someone coming, but if he didn't he will just keep it.

[Wickerman]

A gutter is not a hole in the ground, Baron, it is the lowering where the pavement meets the road. If there had been a drain of sorts there, it would have been searched by the police. No weapon was left on the scene, I think we must accept that.

Or anywhere near the scene for that matter.
The killer took it away with him, whoever he was.

[Wickerman]

There is nothing lily with wither 15 or 10 minutes. When I asked Payne-James if 3,5 or perhaps 7 minutes were likely suggestions, he said that they COULD all apply, but to his mind, the lower estimates (3 and 5) were the safer bets. It does not take long to bleed out from the type of horrendeous wounds Nichols had suffered. In all likelihood, they were provided by Charles Lechmere.

Is this in code?
".....There is nothing lily with wither 15 or 10 minutes...."

Sorry, I thought that was funny.

When I asked Payne-James if 3,5 or perhaps 7 minutes were likely suggestions, he said that they COULD all apply, but to his mind, the lower estimates (3 and 5) were the safer bets. It does not take long to bleed out from the type of horrendeous wounds Nichols had suffered. In all likelihood, they were provided by Charles Lechmere.

If, as PC Neil remarked, blood was still flowing from the throat wound, she may have still been technically alive.
Accepting gravity will allow blood to flow for a very short time (measured in seconds), the most likely cause would be her arterial system was still under pressure, meaning her heart was still beating, or had just ceased within seconds.

[The Baron]

Or anywhere near the scene for that matter.
The killer took it away with him, whoever he was.

My question is, was there a drain near or around the spot where Nichols was found ?!

I am just getting answers like, if there were, they would have been searched!!!


The Baron