The Mizen scam

[Lechmere]

Law of averages

[lynn cates]

probability

Hello Lechmere. As you know, probability is NEVER a cause.

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

Also if Cross was so concerned about having his pay docked for being late, why did he attend the inquest as he will have lost a whole days pay.

If a coroner requires you to attend an inquest, you attend the inquest. It's not optional.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Lechmere]

If you don't present yourself as a witness then you don't get called

[moonbegger]

Hello Fisherman ,

"A man had stood by the still warm body of Nichols as Paul arrived at the stable yards. If we accept that Lechmere got wind of this by reading the report or by being told about it, then he was faced with the very obvious possibility of becoming the police suspect number one, and if decided to go into hiding, he would more or less confess his guilt. Moreover, the police would enquire about which carmen had a reason to walk through Buck´s Row at the relevant time, and he would always run the risk of bumping into Paul again, a man that walked the same stretch as he did every day! "

So could you enlighten me Fish , as to what the actual benefits of killing on the way to work are ? baring in mind , your suggestion that he probably made a slight detour to the whitechapel road to pick up Polly before bringing her back on to his work route . Why would he go out of his way to court suspicion ?
And as you clearly mention above , it obviously served as more of a hindrance than a benefit to his remaining undetected , especially after he offered himself up for inspection ( head on a platter ) to the police . If anything, after being caught in the web , surely he would suspect the police may start to connect the dots if he carried on his work route murders .
[ Never Sh#t on your own Doorstep ]

"A man had stood by the still warm body of Nichols as Paul arrived at the stable yards"

Yes , as Paul ARRIVED at the stable yard , a minute or so after he turned into bucks row . when he first witnessed Cross/Lech immediately after turning the corner he placed him in the middle of the road looking at the curious bundle that turned out to be polly . in the time it took Paul to walk the distance to the stable gates , Cross/Lech had walked from the middle of the road to investigate close by her warm body .

Why o why would Cross/Lech Kill Polly , then step out into the middle of the street ( totally unawares if anyone had been watching him from Essex Wharf or New Cottage ) and then wait there for the approaching Paul before getting himself muddled up in the whole mess .

Also Quick question .. Was the stable yard always locked , or was it like Annie and 29 Hanbury street .. a good quiet place to either take clients or to sleep off a drunk ?

Cheers ,

moonbegger .

[Fisherman]

Lynn Cates:

"why "MUST"?"

Not MUST, Lynn - must. Any which way MUST or must are of course wrong. I was mislead by my enthusiasm to make the assumption that if Lechmere killed Nichols, then, by reasoning, the other victims, all falling prey along his pathways, arguably, would ALSO (not also) belong to the same killer. I concede now that it was no more than an educated guess. No wait, an EDUCATED guess!

All the best!
Fisherman

[Lechmere]

Lyn... Probable cause?

[lynn cates]

That's entertainment!

Hello Christer. Thanks. I like educated guesses.

And movies with lone sexual serial killers are SO much more entertaining that others.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

One old flay rod has gone out askew upon treadle.

Hello Lechmere. Thanks.

Umm, care for a dissertation about cases of "probable cause" gone askew?

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

Moonbegger:

"So could you enlighten me Fish , as to what the actual benefits of killing on the way to work are ?"

I could, absolutely! If you are of a mindset that craves killing, and have no other option to do so than en route to work, then the obvious benefit will be that you can satisfy your urge by making use of that option.

"baring in mind , your suggestion that he probably made a slight detour to the whitechapel road to pick up Polly before bringing her back on to his work route . Why would he go out of his way to court suspicion ?"

That on is just as easy to answer, but the answer comes in two parts:

1. We don´t KNOW that he picked Nichols up on Whitechapel Road. We only know that she was last seen making use of that road, walking eastwards.
2. If he wanted to find himself a woman to kill - quite probably but not necessarily a prostitute - then he would have to search out a location where there were women/prostitutes to find. If he could somehow telepathically make one of those prostitutes leave Whitechapel Road and walk up to Buck´s Row to meet him there, he probably would have used that option. But as it stands, we may need to accept that he looked for victims in locations where victims could easily be found, having to accept the risk that he was seen when doing so.

"If anything, after being caught in the web , surely he would suspect the police may start to connect the dots if he carried on his work route murders ."

Only, Moonbegger, if he also made the assumption that he was under suspicion. You see, he was neve caught in that web. And even if he had been, it still applies that very many serialists choose surroundings that are very familiar to them for killing. We can´t do the thinking for them in retrospective, I´m afraid. They do what they do, and so did the Ripper. Arguably, he would have stood a better chance to stay undetected if he killed in Buck´s Row, a forest outside Nottingham, on the market square of York, on the Whitby beach and in Kew Gardens - that pattern should leave the cops flabbergasted! But only the fewest kill in surroundings that are completely new to them, and I suspect that the rare creatures that do so, do it because they have read up about what mistakes serialists commonly do.

"Yes , as Paul ARRIVED at the stable yard , a minute or so after he turned into bucks row . when he first witnessed Cross/Lech immediately after turning the corner he placed him in the middle of the road looking at the curious bundle that turned out to be polly . in the time it took Paul to walk the distance to the stable gates , Cross/Lech had walked from the middle of the road to investigate close by her warm body . "

I´m afraid you have gotten this all mixed up. At the inquest, Paul said that the man he met (Lechmere) was standing in the middle of the road as he approached him from the east. It is only in the interview of the Lloyd´s Weekly of the 3:rd that Paul claims that Lechmere was standing where the body was. And Lechmere did not walk to the body before Paul did - they did so together, on Lechmere´s bid. The reason I mentioned the Lloyd´s article, was that it would have governed the initial police thinking at a stage where Lechmere had still not reported in to the police, leaving it very possible that he could be regarded as the possible culprit by the police.

"Why o why would Cross/Lech Kill Polly , then step out into the middle of the street ( totally unawares if anyone had been watching him from Essex Wharf or New Cottage ) and then wait there for the approaching Paul before getting himself muddled up in the whole mess ."

He would have stepped out in the middle BEFORE Paul could make him out in the dark. The reason, I think, should be very obvious!

"Was the stable yard always locked "

Can´t tell - it was locked on the night in question, at any rate.

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Lynn:

"And movies with lone sexual serial killers are SO much more entertaining that others."

Don´t accuse me for increasing the Hollywood value - my killer is rather a dull bloke in many ways. No moonhowlin´there, like ... well, Issenschmidt, for example

The best,
Fisherman

[Lechmere]

A dull bloke like most serial killers - very unsatisfactory for those who like their meat red as it were

[Fisherman]

Lechmere:

"A dull bloke like most serial killers"

Absolutely. Like Collins. Like Ridgway. Like Shawcross. Like Kroll. Like Kürten. Like Williams. Like De Salvo. Like Rader. Like Cullen. Like Berkowitz. Like Nilsen. Like West. Like Sutcliffe. Like Brudos. Like Pickton. Like Sowell. Like Long. Like Gary. Like Stayner. Like Stano. Like Glatman. Like Courtney. Like Rifkin. Like Armstrong. Like Naso. Like Dupas. Like...

The list goes on and on, amassing dull, uninteresting men, many looser types, others low-payed employees, a few of them decently earning guys, men just like our unconspicus neighbours, men like the type of men we meet every day and think nothing much of. The kind of men that some of us would call unsuspicious. Totally uninteresting men, most of them - but all of them serial killers just the same.

If we had not known what Joel Rifkin truly was - who would put money on him as a Jack the Ripper-alike? Who would finger Kürten, if all we knew about him was that he was a tidy little man with good manners? Who would recommend the electric chair for Rader, for Ridgway, for Williams ... if we only went by what we knew of them besides our knowledge that they were all lethal? Rader, the slightly ridiculous man who wanted all to be law-abiding, un-littering, good citizens, the good guy Ridgway, always ready to share a joke, Wayne Williams, the son of two schoolteachers, doted on and with the meekest of appearances ...?

Saying that Lechmere seems too unconspicious to be the killer equals having missed out on what the history of serial killing tells us.

The best,
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

documentary

Hello Christer. A JI movie would NEVER sell. Too boring. True accounts are called "documentaries." Now, when was the last time you switched off football for a documentary? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Simon Wood]

Hi Fisherman,

As you are positing Charles Cross/Lechmere as the Ripper, I would like to know how he was identified and thus came to appear as a witness at the Nichols inquest.

Robert Paul was interviewed by Lloyds Weekly News on the evening of Friday 31st August—after which he was visited at home by the police—and again on the night of Saturday 1st September. There was no mystery about his name and address.

But Robert Paul did not know Charles Cross.

So how did the police learn the identity of the man who first discovered/may have murdered Polly Nichols?

Regards,

Simon