Give Charles Cross/Lechemere a place as a suspect

[caz]

We canīt tie Kosminsky to any of the victims in any fashion. The same goes for Tumblety, Levy, Cutbush, Bury ... you name them.

Just how "perverse" is it to "slander" them and point a finger at them as the Ripper, if this is the way we are supposed to do things? How damning is it to suggest Feigenbaum, Kelly, Hyams? Can you tell me?

These are men that are fair game in the business, but also men who we cannot place on the murder streets in the manner we can put Lechmere there, and at the correct times! Nor did they have their mothers living at an address that provides us with useful explanation to the Stride murder, geographically and timewise. Nor did they succeed to have themselves recorded by the wrong name for a 120 years.

But no, those who propose Lechmere should be ashamed of their perversion - he must not be regarded as a possible killer.

Ripperology is sometimes very interesting.

The best,

your perverted

Fisherman

Fifty-one wrongs don't make a right, Fish.

Since Cross was to all intents and purposes just the first person to see Nichols lying dead in Buck's Row, you'd need to place him at or near another murder scene 'at the correct time' to make anything of it. Of course the unhappy man discovered Nichols 'at the correct time' - someone had to! If Cross had been a minute or two later, it would have been Paul or someone else on their way to work who'd now be in the firing line. It's not good enough and it doesn't elevate him above the police suspects.

Love,

Caz
X

[Trevor Marriott]

Yep,

Spot on.

Monty

I am becoming worried now thats the second time you have agreed with me this year and its not even May yet

[Fisherman]

Monty:

"Spot on."

Hmm, Monty - who do YOU award the "likely suspect" and the "prime suspect" role?

Fisherman
curious

[Fisherman]

Well, sorry about that, Trevor - at least Feigenbaum got mentioned by me, right ...?

As an aside, I very much agree about the the "find yourself a madman-approach".

Fisherman

[Monty]

The suspect list has been drawn up and added to over the years by people who do not understand the difference between

1. Those persons who were spoken to in relation to the investigation as part of that ongoing investigation (being spoken to would not make them a suspect)

2. Persons coming under suspicion (Cross)

3. Likely suspects.

3. Prime Suspect.

Many on that long suspect list should not even be on the list in my opinion

Yep,

Spot on.

Monty

[Trevor Marriott]

"Square pegs in round holes"

Miss Marple:

We canīt tie Kosminsky to any of the victims in any fashion. The same goes for Tumblety, Levy, Cutbush, Bury ... you name them.

Just how "perverse" is it to "slander" them and point a finger at them as the Ripper, if this is the way we are supposed to do things? How damning is it to suggest Feigenbaum, Kelly, Hyams? Can you tell me?

Well at least Feigenbaum actually murdered a female by cutting her throat and was known to carry a long bladed knife. That has to elevate him to suspect status. What claim to fame have any of the others.

Its got to the stage of people trying to put square pegs in round holes. You only have to look at Kosminski,Levy,Ischensmidt, Cohen, Kamimsky all came about by reserachers trying to find a mad polish jew who lived in Whitechapel who was incarcerated.

Now people are doing the self same thing with the Kelly thread

Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Miss Marple:

"only the most perverse interpretation would cast him as a murderer"

Well, thanks for that, miss Marple!

We canīt tie Kosminsky to any of the victims in any fashion. The same goes for Tumblety, Levy, Cutbush, Bury ... you name them.

Just how "perverse" is it to "slander" them and point a finger at them as the Ripper, if this is the way we are supposed to do things? How damning is it to suggest Feigenbaum, Kelly, Hyams? Can you tell me?

These are men that are fair game in the business, but also men who we cannot place on the murder streets in the manner we can put Lechmere there, and at the correct times! Nor did they have their mothers living at an address that provides us with useful explanation to the Stride murder, geographically and timewise. Nor did they succeed to have themselves recorded by the wrong name for a 120 years.

But no, those who propose Lechmere should be ashamed of their perversion - he must not be regarded as a possible killer.

Ripperology is sometimes very interesting.

The best,

your perverted

Fisherman

[curious]

Completely agree Caz,
Poor Cross seems to have been an ordinary working man going about his business when he had the bad luck to come across a ripper victim. This enables people to slander him left right and centre. He discovered a body which makes him a witness, but only the most perverse interpretation would cast him as a murderer.

Miss Marple

Hi, Miss Marple, Caz,

You see, I feel the same way about Joseph Barnett -- the slander, I mean, when he was also a victim. As I see things.

However, with Cross, there is so much more here -- at least to the way I see things.

JtR was never caught, possibly because people did not look below the surface. There seems enough stress in Cross-Lechmere's life, his frustration and anger needing an outlet actually makes sense to me.

curious

[miss marple]

Completely agree Caz,
Poor Cross seems to have been an ordinary working man going about his business when he had the bad luck to come across a ripper victim. This enables people to slander him left right and centre. He discovered a body which makes him a witness, but only the most perverse interpretation would cast him as a murderer.

Miss Marple

[caz]

We all laugh or take the piss when yet another famous artist is squeezed into the frame (no pun intended but gratefully received). But most of us are sensible enough not to take such theories - or theorists - seriously.

In a way, I think the Cross theory is almost as bad, because it smacks of a plausibility that it doesn't really deserve, with the result that relatively intelligent people can get taken in, and begin to see evidence where there is actually none at all.

In both examples a case has to be manufactured from scratch by putting the worst possible interpretations on an individual's known actions, family background and so on, and filling the numerous gaps with imagined nastiness, where all could be totally innocent.

In short, that's not a very nice pursuit, is it?

Love,

Caz
X

[John Wheat]

I have to agree with Trevor Marriott on the point about suspects.

[Jon Guy]

More people might think that he is a suspect if he was included in the suspect list, instead of them having to discover him by accident on a thread.....

I believe Casebook would require something suspicious about Cross before they`d do something like that.

[Trevor Marriott]

I don't know if you include me in this sneery 'five people' ? If not, make it six...

Of course Cross is a suspect.

More people might think that he is a suspect if he was included in the suspect list, instead of them having to discover him by accident on a thread.....

The suspect list has been drawn up and added to over the years by people who do not understand the difference between

1. Those persons who were spoken to in relation to the investigation as part of that ongoing investigation (being spoken to would not make them a suspect)

2. Persons coming under suspicion (Cross)

3. Likely suspects.

3. Prime Suspect.

Many on that long suspect list should not even be on the list in my opinion

[Jon Guy]

Cross was not and is not a suspect. Five people on earth, bored with the 'usual suspects', have decided he was the Ripper. That does not a suspect make.

Absolutely, Tom!!

[Rubyretro]

Hi all,

Cross was not and is not a suspect. Five people on earth, bored with the 'usual suspects', have decided he was the Ripper. That does not a suspect make.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

I don't know if you include me in this sneery 'five people' ? If not, make it six...

Of course Cross is a suspect.

More people might think that he is a suspect if he was included in the suspect list, instead of them having to discover him by accident on a thread.....