Jacob Levy updated

[Fleetwood Mac]

So Jacob was roaming the streets(trolling?), the prostitutes must have known him, we know he could be charming,at one time he had a succesfull business, he was local,living all his life in the district,he had knife skills, he suffered from syphillis, he had the stressor of his mother dying in May 1888, he was the right age.
Nuff said
Keep Well
Jimi

Hi Jimi,

Jacob was far from the only one walking the streets; prostitutes will have known quite a few punters; a successful business isn't a prerequisite for being Jack; I'm sure 99% of men in the East End were able to do enough talking to get a prostitute to go into a corner with them, and who's to say Jack was charming, anyway, money did the talking; many men lived all their lives in the district, and perhaps it wasn't man who lived in the district; plenty of men carried a knife or instrument capable of doing damage; again, suffering from syphillis was not a prerequisite for being Jack; personal tragedy will have been common to East Enders; many men were the right age.

Not enough there for me, Jimi.

To answer the Levy/'character' point:

I personally would not call my cousin one of 'those characters'. Yet, how did he know he was such a character? Apparently he was simply stood there, and a couple including a prostitute wouldn't have been an uncommon sight. It may suggest Levy knew him well enough by character to deduce one of 'those characters'. I'd imagine a 'character' from work or the pub/club.

[Jimi]

A Profile

Hi All
During the writing of Jacob the Ripper, I found the need to research profiling. I discovered what I thought were some interesting points.
Fro Robert D. Keppels book 'Signature Killers', a profile of an anger-excitation killer-:
The killer has rehearsed his plan of action over and over in his mind and afterwards implements it with a well equipped travelling murder kit.....
The killer chooses a stranger who fits his needs in a sexually symbolic category,such as nurse,prostitute,chils or matriach. This is a killer looking for sexual excitement based on anger but triggered by a fetish.
In his approach to his prey,the killer always displays a disarmingly charming manner....for the killer,the issue is always sex and sexual control as an expression of anger. The most complete control to the killer is over a dead victim. The stages of violence leading to the victims death excite the the killer but are only a means to an end,rather than the ends themselves.
In anger-excitation murder the killers supreme satisfaction is not at the moment when the victim lies helpless at his feet, but long after when the killer has retuned home,alone with his thoughts and his trophies.
Serial killers troll, they are always on the move, thats how they find victim pools and murder sites.

So Jacob was roaming the streets(trolling?), the prostitutes must have known him, we know he could be charming,at one time he had a succesfull business, he was local,living all his life in the district,he had knife skills, he suffered from syphillis, he had the stressor of his mother dying in May 1888, he was the right age.
Nuff said
Keep Well
Jimi

[GregBaron]

Agreed...

Hi All
Hi Greg
Thanks for that. As you can see a mere twelve point quick summary of Jacobs ability to be classed as JTR.
At number three , you mention Kleptomania.Within the article we posited the possibility of Jacob being a Kleptomaniac,however ,in our opinion we thouht this unlikely.(Sorry if we gave you the wrong idea) Kleptos are usually disorganised and depressive,victims of substance abuse and severely anxious. While we were working from Jacobs imprisonment in 1886 we didn't think it figured. Howver, I agree it could possibly have featured at a later date.
Moving on.
In the article I titled the period 1881-1890 'The decade of Destruction'.
My reason for this was that it wasn't about the killing and mutilation in Whitechapel, but about the slow decline of Jacob Levys life. As Jack the Ripper I hate Jacob,but as Jacob Levy,well, we learnt to feel sorrow and pity a mans fight against a disease he and medical science who could do nothing to save him.
So,no I don't think Jacob was a gibbering ,slavering wreck. To pass him in the street he would have looked as normal as anyone. Except for when the illness struck.
Keep Well
Jimi

That's fine and dandy Jimi, one needn't be a kleptomaniac to enjoy stealing stuff.....especially valueless stuff.......as apparently did Jacob and the ripper............

Also, I understand your pity for the suffering, dying creature whether ripper or not...

Greg

[Cogidubnus]

Neat

Now ask the question " why didn't Joseph identify Jacob"?

And that, of course, is the wonderful, all-singing, all-dancing, tie-in...

Dave

[Jimi]

A Profile

Hi All
Hi Greg
Thanks for that. As you can see a mere twelve point quick summary of Jacobs ability to be classed as JTR.
At number three , you mention Kleptomania.Within the article we posited the possibility of Jacob being a Kleptomaniac,however ,in our opinion we thouht this unlikely.(Sorry if we gave you the wrong idea) Kleptos are usually disorganised and depressive,victims of substance abuse and severely anxious. While we were working from Jacobs imprisonment in 1886 we didn't think it figured. Howver, I agree it could possibly have featured at a later date.
Moving on.
In the article I titled the period 1881-1890 'The decade of Destruction'.
My reason for this was that it wasn't about the killing and mutilation in Whitechapel, but about the slow decline of Jacob Levys life. As Jack the Ripper I hate Jacob,but as Jacob Levy,well, we learnt to feel sorrow and pity a mans fight against a disease he and medical science who could do nothing to save him.
So,no I don't think Jacob was a gibbering ,slavering wreck. To pass him in the street he would have looked as normal as anyone. Except for when the illness struck.
Keep Well
Jimi

[Jimi]

Update

Hi All
Thank you for both the compliments and the critisims. Honestly, discussion is the fuel of knowledge.
I, like others ,do NOT want to get into a 'my suspect is better than your suspect' argument, they all have their pros and cons.
Where exactly was Bury in August 1888? He kills and mutilates his wife,stuffs her in a trunk then confesses to the police. Real Ripper M.O. that
Where was Kelly in 1888?
You see? We are not saying these are not viable suspects.They are, thats why they are suspects. What we are saying is that they are no better than Jacob, and in our opinion not as good. My opinion.
Don't run away with the idea that we first 'discovered' Jacob. We gained our first info from Casebooks dissertation by Mark King. Which brings me to......
My first actual insight into Jacob was through Joseph. I always felt here was a guy who knew more than he was saying. But why? I hypothesised that Joseph and Jacob could be related and 5 years later ( with a lot of help) we have proved this. Now ask the question " why didn't Joseph identify Jacob"? This research isn't finished, in all honesty there is more,possibly much more to come, however due to ,how can i put it, other sights and various nefarious characters claiming discoveries, I felt Tracy wasn't getting the credit for her tremendous work and wrote the article.
Keep Well
Jimi

[GregBaron]

A short list...

Hi all,

I read Tracy and Jimi's article right when ripper...124 came out so I'm going off the top of my head. I'll just throw out a few curious circumstances about this fellow to spur discussion...

1) A butcher – not a baker nor candlestick maker
2) Had syphilis – probably a frequenter of prostitutes and an anger motive
3) Was a kleptomaniac – Chapman’s stolen rings and no money found on any victim could indicate a similar condition in the killer
4) Was a wanderer – in his wife’s words
5) Lived in the heart of the district – especially close to Mitre Square
6) Was 5’3” – which coincided coincidentally with Joseph Levy’s “3 inches higher” description of the man he didn’t see!
7) Was eventually “caged in an asylum and died shortly thereafter”
8) Was a Jew – not a low class Polish one but a medium class (and falling) Dutch one
9) Was fond of drink – according to his wife
10) Had a bolt hole and experience with blood stains
11) Was possibly the suspect mentioned by Sagar
12) Fell into mental illness

Again, just a few things that come to mind. I believe this character could have been muddled up with the Kozminski mess........speculative of course...


Greg

[Stephen Thomas]

Anybody...

What are the actual arguments against Jacob Levy being JTR?

[Roy Corduroy]

was just spitballing

I knew that. I know you don't read the books, the articles, the informational part of Casebook. Whatever we don't put up here in front of you on the message boards you assume doesn't exist, while you get your riffs in. Until we put it up here for you.

Roy

I may start charging for the pamphlets

You can still get a free one by sending a self addressed stamped envelope to

Roy Corduroy
14 Mud Island Cutoff
Trailer D
c/o the Flora-Bama Lounge

[Cogidubnus]

Belatedly

Tracy/Jimi I only just realised I hadn't thanked you for sharing your quite outstanding research...Thanks... another one to add to the list of "real" suspects!

Dave

[Wyatt Earp]

Wyatt
Bury is a more likely suspect than Levy. In fact in my opinion in 'The Crimes Of Jack the Ripper' by Paul Roland where Jacob Levy is originally suggested. Roland makes a better case for Bury being Jack.
John

Thanks for that, John. I will be taking a look at the Roland book.

[Scott Nelson]

Paul Roland didn't originate Jacob Levy's suspect status.

[John Wheat]

Wyatt
Bury is a more likely suspect than Levy. In fact in my opinion in 'The Crimes Of Jack the Ripper' by Paul Roland where Jacob Levy is originally suggested. Roland makes a better case for Bury being Jack.
John

[Errata]

I would just like to point out that any statements I made concerning the validity of newspaper reports, etc. was just spitballing until the particulars came out. It was an explanation why at first blush, I would take Levy's word over a newspapers. I would not take Levy's wife's word over that of an inquest. Similarly the method of hanging. You picture things in your head based on what you know. Because I couldn't hang myself in this 150 year old house, I pictured someone going to some trouble to hang themselves, which is odd. Clearly not impossible, but odd.

[Abby Normal]

Hi Roy




Missed that, good catch, I am answering for Jimi here and can just apologise, this is just a simple mistake Jimi has made. This is his Achilles heel, for some reason, he keeps thinking that it was in the deposition that Sarah gave but it isn't, it is separate.

Do you know if I am allowed to publish the page on here to stop any confusion, or is it not allowed through copyright?

I do intend to type out all the records when I have caught up with everything so people can read it word for word rather than having to go from our posts. However in this instance it is a page that is typed out asking about previous attacks etc and one question is - Whether any near relative has been afflicted with insanity the answer to this is - Yes elder brother cut his throat

Sorry for any confusion and hope this clears it up.


Tracy

Hi tracy
Im a bit confused by this response. So who said Abraham cut his own throat-Sarah or Jacob?