Was the Artist Henri de Toulouse Lautrec Implicated in the Killings?

[galexander]

And just incase that isnt enough..

Gaudin cannot have been Mary Kelly,, because..

She was still living in 1889...For one example, see HTL's 'Red-Headed Woman Sitting in the Garden of M. Forest' 1889

kindly

Phil

Carmen Gaudin and Lautrec parted company quite some months before 1888.

Some of the quoted dates of these paintings may be misleading as they may refer to the date they were first publicly viewed. Some paintings were also completed in the studio by Lautrec quite sometime after the original sketch had been made.

[Bridewell]

Legless

Lautrec scores over a man with no legs at all.

He does, but Lautrec was alcoholic, so probably legless much of the time.

[Bridewell]

Gaugin!

And just incase that isnt enough..

Gaudin cannot have been Mary Kelly,, because..

She was still living in 1889...For one example, see HTL's 'Red-Headed Woman Sitting in the Garden of M. Forest' 1889

kindly

Phil

Hi Phil,

Perhaps it was Gaugin then, not Gaudin! He could have done Stride, leaving Van Gogh free to see to Eddowes, with Toulouse coming into the frame later when he came up Commercial Street on stilts and gave MJK a fit of the giggles.

[mariab]

Or just a torso as a suspect for both the London and the Paris torso murders.

[Robert]

Lautrec scores over a man with no legs at all.

[mariab]

Were there any Ripper murders in Paris while Lautrec was resident there

Actually, there were. Any time now someone's gonna come out and accuse Toulouse-Lautrec (or his doctor) of the French torso murder. :-)

"A number of posters seem to have got the same wrong impression."
Now you must watch out for Robert. He'll make a pun out of "impression."

There's minimalist Ripperology, suspect-centered Ripperology, and of lately, the sub-field of impressionist Ripperology.

[Limehouse]

A number of posters seem to have got the same wrong impression.

I am not of the opinion that HTL committed the murders in person or even that he knew they had happened. He was handicapped and had a problem walking very far.

What I do suggest however is that his doctor, Henri Bourges, may have been a possible candidate. During the months in question he was notably absent from HTL's side.

Hello Galexander, welcome to the site.

Don't you think this doctor was going beyond his duty to his client - ie going out and slaying the women/woman he felt was responsible for his client's illness. i mean, did he do this for all of his syphillitic patients? seems a bit implausible to me.

Also, with respect, I am getting a little tired of the theory that the women were slayed for spreading syphillis. It seems an often repeated motive and some theorists even seem to imply it was a justifiable motive. I don't have any sympathy with it. For a start, I am sure their clients knew the risk they were taking when they went with the women and were therefore at least partly responsible for getting infected, and secondly, why don't we have any examples of prostitutes going out and slaying the men responsible for infecting them in the first place?

[Bridewell]

Hi Galexander.

I'm being rather less than charitable. Welcome to the Boards. You will, inevitably I think, encounter a great deal of scepticism in advancing Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec as a JtR suspect.

You'll need to show that he was in London at the material time, that he had at least a passing familiarity with the East End, that he (or at least someone answering his description) was seen there. You'll also need to establish a motive and to show that, despite his limitations, he was physically capable of a series of brutal murders. I think you're up against it, frankly, but please prove me wrong on this.

Regards, Bridewell

[Phil Carter]

Brilliant Bridewell!

Excerpts from the Dali Diary Memorandum I see. This has never been published in full you know... there is rumour to be another version.. or two..
One by Whistler's close relative, a sewing machine manufacturer called Singer.
The other by some bloke apparently connected to Mr Whistler called Mr Bean..once seen hanging in a gallery on a wall but this hasn't been seen since the 1990's and is thought now to be lost.

kindly

Phil

[Bridewell]

Henri the Ripper



Here he is: Astrakhan Man in all his glory.

[lynn cates]

impressionist pun

Hello Gale. Thanks for clarifying. I note that,

"A number of posters seem to have got the same wrong impression."

Now you must watch out for Robert. He'll make a pun out of "impression."

Cheers.
LC

[Sally]

I agree with Robert: as a viable suspect, Lautrec comes up short.

[Bridewell]

Hmmmm

I agree with Robert: as a viable suspect, Lautrec comes up short.

Are we now in a Cutbush situation?

"I may mention the cases of 3 men, any one of whom would have been more likely than Sickert to have committed this series of murders:

(1) A Mr V.V.Gogh, said to be an artist of doubtful sanity who didn't disappear at the time of the Millers Court murder, and whose body (which was said to have spent no time at all in the water) was found nowhere near the Thames on 29th July 1890, or about 140 weeks after that murder. He was probably insane, though not sexually, and from private inf I have little doubt but that his own family never, for one moment, believed him to be the murderer.

(2) Lautrec, a French aristocrat and resident in Paris. This man did not become insane owing to many years indulgence in solitary vices. He had a great love of brothels, especially of the female class & had no known homicidal tendencies; he was removed to a sanatorium about 1900. There were many circs connected with this man which made him a highly improbable suspect.

(3) Edgar Degas, a French artist and a sculptor, who was never detained in a lunatic asylum as a homicidal maniac. This man's antecedents were of the best possible type, and his whereabouts at the time of the murders could ever be established - as Montmartre.

It seems that Lautrec was 4' 11" tall so, with lifts, he might just make it past Annie Chapman's 5', but he had a man's body on a child's legs, and was effectively crippled by childhood injury. Lautrec was alive at the time and in Europe but that, I suspect is the sum of his involvement. Were there any Ripper murders in Paris while Lautrec was resident there or did he offend only as a London commuter?

I'll take some convincing, frankly.

[Phil Carter]

And just incase that isnt enough..

Gaudin cannot have been Mary Kelly,, because..

She was still living in 1889...For one example, see HTL's 'Red-Headed Woman Sitting in the Garden of M. Forest' 1889

kindly

Phil

[Phil Carter]

The problem with prostitution is that pseudonyms are almost always used. Mary Kelly was a common name among prostitutes of the East End of the time.

HTL's favourite model Carmen Gaudin had red hair (dyed) and split with Lautrec around the time Kelly returned from Paris to the East End. Carmen Gaudin itself could have been a pseudonym, the name has a slight ring to it and could have been Lautrec's own creation.

Here is an image of Carmen Gaudin below:

Hello all,


Ok..let's put this to bed once and for all on Gaudin being Mary Kelly shall we?

It's simple. Where was Mary Kelly in 1888? Answer..NOT in HTL's studio sitting for a portrait, that's where.

http://www.oceansbridge.com/oil-paintings/product/62163/carmengaudinintheartistsstudio1888

kindly

Phil