Was the Artist Henri de Toulouse Lautrec Implicated in the Killings?

[Cogidubnus]

If he's talking to himself, he probably IS the dentist

[lynn cates]

loud

Hello Gale. OK, I see your idea here.

I think the murder in Hanbury was committed by a lunatic unaware of his surroundings. Note that the Long sighting involved a man close to the shutters talking loudly. Does a stealthy murderer engage in such behaviour?

Cheers.
LC

[Simon Wood]

Hi Gale,

If any of the murders had been the dastardly work of a secret cabal of Freemasons, why would the perpetrators have given the game away by employing ritualistic symbolism?

Regards,

Simon

[galexander]

So which is the extraordinary activity? Getting one's teeth sorted out, or going to a brothel? He's simply plucking episodes from everyday life!

You are simply dodging the issue!

Not every activity from everyday life is appropriate subject matter for Impressionist art.

[Cogidubnus]

Plucked

Hang them from the lamp-posts?

Now I seem to recall something like that actually happened in Brighton ... was that the Lovers Walk murder? Can't recall...not ritualistic though...just a bloody mess...

[lynn cates]

Manet

Hello Gale.

"what is a fun-loving Impressionist artist doing painting half-naked women in brothels one minute then a pioneering operation the next?"

Those are penetrating questions. (Sorry.) But, conversely, why did Manet paint a prostitute and a picnic in the park?

Cheers.
LC

[galexander]

Hello (again) Gale.

"Okay then would you at least admit that having the entrails draped over the shoulder WAS an extremely peculiar injury to inflict, especially in the open street before potential onlookers?"

You refer to #29 Hanbury and Mitre sq? Not sure those killings were in the open street.

Cheers.
LC

You know very well what I was driving at. JR was at risk of being caught by residents at Hanbury Street as well.

And how probable was it that JR got away with what he did to Eddowes in Mitre Square? Virtually under the nose of a night watchman in a nearby warehouse who never heard a thing; and in a square patrolled every 15-20 minutes by a policeman on foot.

Further Eddowes had only just been released from police custody some half an hour earlier where she had given the name.........yep you guessed it...........Mary Kelly!

Nothing suspicious about any of this at all however..........

[Henry Flower]

Bridewell - I agree completely. He chucked them out of the way - kneeling to one side he's either going to place them near the shoulder or the feet. What else would he do? Cut them out, carry them to a discreet location and bury them before getting back to the victim? Hang them from the lamp-posts?

[Cogidubnus]

So which is the extraordinary activity? Getting one's teeth sorted out, or going to a brothel? He's simply plucking episodes from everyday life!

[galexander]

Cog - it really could be Homer Simpson having a root canal.

But more likely, it's definitive proof of somebody's guilt in the Jack the Ripper murder case. As usual.

Putting sarcasm to one side, what is a fun-loving Impressionist artist doing painting half-naked women in brothels one minute then a pioneering operation the next?

You have failed to explain the connection and the apparent absurdity of the situation.

[Bridewell]

Okay then would you at least admit that having the entrails draped over the shoulder WAS an extremely peculiar injury to inflict, especially in the open street before potential onlookers?

And could this peculiar injury be described as ritualistic?

I think so.

This happened to at least two of the victims.

Two from whom abdominal organs were taken. In order to access said organs it would be necessary to lift the entrails out of the way. Ritual or pragmatism?

[Henry Flower]

Hello Gale, as I see it, if JTR was in the habit of placing things around or beside the body - ie, one breast beneath head, another at the feet, organs in various places, piles of flesh on table, a length of intestine placed between arm and torso - etc - then I'm inclined to see the shoulder-throw of intestine as nothing more than coincidence. I'd be more interested if other injuries were also Masonically prescribed, or if the shoulder placement of intestine were repeated in every instance. As it stands I think he removed intestines because they were in his way, and he moved them to a near and convenient place. Then he started on organs.

And as far as the open street is concerned, I'd hope that every injury inflicted by the Whitechapel killer was a peculiar thing to do in the open street.

[lynn cates]

open street

Hello (again) Gale.

"Okay then would you at least admit that having the entrails draped over the shoulder WAS an extremely peculiar injury to inflict, especially in the open street before potential onlookers?"

You refer to #29 Hanbury and Mitre sq? Not sure those killings were in the open street.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

varia

Hello Gale.

"If a lone serial killer was involved then why did the killings stop after just a little more than two months?"

Although I am the last bloke to believe in this, any of the following is viable:

i) He got frightened he'd get caught.

ii) He tired of it.

iii) He died.

iv) He was committed to an asylum.

v) He was put in gaol.

vi) He changed MO.

"Serial killers kill over years and there are usually many months between each victim."

Sometimes; but, sometimes not.

"And look at the wounding inflicted on the victims. Were they ritualistic? In French Grand Orient Freemasonry the penalty in the third degree includes having one's entrails thrown over the shoulder. Just a coincidence?"

OK, but then why were not ALL of them like this?

The quote about "no meaningless cuts" was not said of Kate or MJ.

Cheers.
LC

[galexander]

Hello there,

The point of a ritual is that it's carried out the same way every time. That's what makes it a ritual. Every single Ripper victim was killed differently. Did they each have intestines thrown over shoulders? No. They didn't. Therefore, in answer to your question: yes, just a coincidence. Why not list the other third degree penalties in Masonry, so we can see whether an attempt has been made to kill by Masonic precept. That would show more rigour and integrity than cherry-picking, would it not?

No meaningless injuries? Nonsense. Absolute nonsense. Look at the face of Eddowes or the body of Kelly. Look at the hacks at Nichols' abdomen. You've cherry-picked one medical opinion, and ignored others that later contradicted it.

If we're going Masonic, please list all the punishments prescribed by Masonic ritual and tell us how many have been carried out on all five victims. And further, what advice did Masonic law have for doctors avenging the contraction of disease by their clients? While you're at it, see if you can drag Oscar Wilde into the story - he's famous too!

This is old stuff.

Okay then would you at least admit that having the entrails draped over the shoulder WAS an extremely peculiar injury to inflict, especially in the open street before potential onlookers?

And could this peculiar injury be described as ritualistic?

I think so.

This happened to at least two of the victims.