Was the Artist Henri de Toulouse Lautrec Implicated in the Killings?

[galexander]

Hello, Galexander,

Welcome to the boards. There are a couple of points that you made I found intriguing as quoted.

The name Marie Jeanette for Kelly has always been strange, and you have provided a possible explanation since Marie is actually part of Lautrec's name. (And it is a possible explanation even without Lautrec being involved in the murders. She could simply have met and posed for him while she was in Paris.) However, my access to research material is quite limited and I can find no way to substantiate your No. 3. Since it was in a letter to his mother, I suppose he could have painted Mary Kelly and not named her. I did find a painting of a Catherine-Jeanette. Have you found any painting entitled just Jeanette or Marie Jeanette?


and number 4. I realize Kelly could have been in the latent stage for Joe Barnett to have lived a long and apparently syphilis-free life, but have to wonder . . .

With the 125th anniversary of the WCM coming up, surely you'll be able to find a publisher.

The problem with prostitution is that pseudonyms are almost always used. Mary Kelly was a common name among prostitutes of the East End of the time.

HTL's favourite model Carmen Gaudin had red hair (dyed) and split with Lautrec around the time Kelly returned from Paris to the East End. Carmen Gaudin itself could have been a pseudonym, the name has a slight ring to it and could have been Lautrec's own creation.

Here is an image of Carmen Gaudin below:

[galexander]

Hello Gale. Welcome to the boards.

You seem to be a part of a growing cadre of those who prefer artists as the Whitechapel murderer. Interesting.

If you think HT-L the murderer then I suppose you will need to establish his being in London at the appropriate times.

On the other hand, a friend/relative of his might need identification.

Any good leads on either?

Cheers.
LC

A number of posters seem to have got the same wrong impression.

I am not of the opinion that HTL committed the murders in person or even that he knew they had happened. He was handicapped and had a problem walking very far.

What I do suggest however is that his doctor, Henri Bourges, may have been a possible candidate. During the months in question he was notably absent from HTL's side.

[Cogidubnus]

Wasn't there supposed to be some sort of a connection between Toulouse Latrec and Three Loos McCarthy?

[The Grave Maurice]

I agree with Robert: as a viable suspect, Lautrec comes up short.

[mariab]

TONS of artists in the 19th century died of syphilis. Among them, the composers Franz Schubert and Gaetano Donizetti.
I feel completely ridiculous to even be required to clarify this, but Toulouse-Lautrec was not in London during the Whitechapel murders.

Even without, since Lautrec painted this sort of women, it is possible they met. What makes no sense is Mary ending up in the East End.

On the other side, it appears that MJK had either been to Paris "with a French colonel" for a short time, or was putting on French airs to impress people. I've tried to research this in Paris. Brothels are not listed at the archives of the Paris Police Museum before the 1900s, and in the criminal archives at the Archives de Paris so far I haven't seen any women arrested in 1888 for prostitution, only for stealing and vagabondage. From the cases I've encountered in the criminal archives, none fits with MJK.
Has she been to Paris and circulating around Monmartre, it's not out of the realm of possibility that she might have known who Toulouse-Lautrec was. There are indeed a few tall redheads in his paintings, but all of them visibly French and dancing the cancan. :-)


PS.: Who's next as a JTR suspect? Degas, Manet? :-)

[curious]

I'm wondering if this theory has the legs.

Lautrec as the murderer or reason for the murder, I doubt it.

On the other hand, Mary Kelly using "Marie Jeanette" did seem an affectation she picked up somewhere. This theory presents an explanation that does make some sense. IF IN FACT, the letter to his mother exists, and IF Lautrec customarily gave his girlfriends part of his own name as an "honor" he bestowed.

Even without, since Lautrec painted this sort of women, it is possible they met. What makes no sense is Mary ending up in the East End.

[Robert]

I'm wondering if this theory has the legs.

[curious]

I
2. Lautrec was obsessed by redheads and it is probable that Kelly at some time in her life also had red hair judging by her nickname ‘ginger’.
3. A letter from Lautrec to his mother reveals that one of his girlfriends in Paris was English and that her first name had been Jeanette. Since Lautrec was in the habit of placing the extra name ‘Marie’ in front of the first name, this English lady would therefore have been called ‘Marie-Jeanette’. This is the very name Kelly had picked up while staying in Paris and which had appeared on her death certificate.
4. Unfortunate rumours were circulating Montmartre that Lautrec had contracted syphilis from a notorious prostitute and also that one of Lautrec’s girlfriends had come to a rather unfortunate end. Lautrec’s life ended prematurely and this could have been the result of syphilis and his chaperone/doctor was also an authority on the treatment of syphilis patients.

Hello, Galexander,

Welcome to the boards. There are a couple of points that you made I found intriguing as quoted.

The name Marie Jeanette for Kelly has always been strange, and you have provided a possible explanation since Marie is actually part of Lautrec's name. (And it is a possible explanation even without Lautrec being involved in the murders. She could simply have met and posed for him while she was in Paris.) However, my access to research material is quite limited and I can find no way to substantiate your No. 3. Since it was in a letter to his mother, I suppose he could have painted Mary Kelly and not named her. I did find a painting of a Catherine-Jeanette. Have you found any painting entitled just Jeanette or Marie Jeanette?


and number 4. I realize Kelly could have been in the latent stage for Joe Barnett to have lived a long and apparently syphilis-free life, but have to wonder . . .

With the 125th anniversary of the WCM coming up, surely you'll be able to find a publisher.

[Sally]

Really? I can't say I'm surprised. Any artist.writer, etc. with even a passing interest in prostitutes appears to be fair game. I can see this one running and running.

I'm actually surprised nobody's suggested Toulouse-Lautrec as a serious suspect actually. If Van Gogh could nip over on the Ferry from France (presumably where he met Mary Kelly) then why not him?

It's the height thing maybe.

It appears that my comment on the 'Art of Conspiracy' thread was premature - I spoke to soon...

Galexander - welcome to the boards. Interesting thoughts - have you any substantial evidence?

[lynn cates]

question

Hello Gale. Welcome to the boards.

You seem to be a part of a growing cadre of those who prefer artists as the Whitechapel murderer. Interesting.

If you think HT-L the murderer then I suppose you will need to establish his being in London at the appropriate times.

On the other hand, a friend/relative of his might need identification.

Any good leads on either?

Cheers.
LC

[galexander]

I refer to my unpublished book “Jack the Ripper: The Case Solved”. The suspect I claim was implicated in the killings was the Impressionist artist, Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec. I make the case that the last victim, Mary Kelly, was the intended target all along and that her relations with an aristocratic gentleman from Paris was the ultimate cause of her demise. In my book I make the case that Lautrec had relations with Kelly, for example:

1. It is known that in the months before her death Kelly spent some time in Paris probably working in a brothel and Lautrec knew and painted all the girls who worked in these establishments.
2. Lautrec was obsessed by redheads and it is probable that Kelly at some time in her life also had red hair judging by her nickname ‘ginger’.
3. A letter from Lautrec to his mother reveals that one of his girlfriends in Paris was English and that her first name had been Jeanette. Since Lautrec was in the habit of placing the extra name ‘Marie’ in front of the first name, this English lady would therefore have been called ‘Marie-Jeanette’. This is the very name Kelly had picked up while staying in Paris and which had appeared on her death certificate.
4. Unfortunate rumours were circulating Montmartre that Lautrec had contracted syphilis from a notorious prostitute and also that one of Lautrec’s girlfriends had come to a rather unfortunate end. Lautrec’s life ended prematurely and this could have been the result of syphilis and his chaperone/doctor was also an authority on the treatment of syphilis patients.

Had one of Lautrec’s close relatives taken offence at this apparent insult to their son’s health who was handicapped and of a poor constitution anyway, and decided to punish the individual responsible? Had this avenger been none other than Lautrec’s own chaperone/doctor Henri Bourges who knew all about good hygiene in the case of people infected with syphilis? During the critical months in question Bourges had been absent from Lautrec’s side though it appears this had only been a temporary arrangement.

Some of Lautrec’s artwork also shows a lurid fascination with surgical procedures and a mysterious redhead with her back to the audience who it isn’t always straightforward to identify. Had Lautrec subconsciously picked up the fact that something extremely untoward had taken place and that this had had a disturbing effect upon his art?

So far all the major publishing houses have declined to publish my work and many of the minor ones as well. Perhaps there is a reason for these rejections………… (However anyone is more than welcome upon request to view the completed MS to judge the quality of my writing for themselves)

Is there anyone out there who is a publisher or who knows a publisher who is interested in such a work on the Ripper?