Mr McCarthy and some questions

[mariab]

I'd be surprised if anyone ever slept well in Miller's Court with all the comings and goings and singing at all hours!

Sounds completely like my apartment building here at the UofC campus. Including the singing at all hours. :-)

[lynn cates]

murder

Hello Debs.

"I'd be surprised if anyone ever slept well in Miller's Court with all the comings and goings and singing at all hours!"

And cries of "Murder!"

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

And cries of "Murder!"

Lol. Though seriously, this is why I think that noone heard Tabram getting murdered in George's Yard. This and civic indifference.

Gonna stop highjacking this thread now, so hopefully it'll go back to McCarthy. (NOT the American McCarthy era though.)

[Wickerman]

No, it was Mary Ann Cox who 'was worried about her rent and couldn't go to sleep'- I believe McCarthy was landlord for the cottages in Miller's Court too?

Hi Debs.
Millers Court was known colloquially as "McCarthy's Rents", and according to two press reports, rent was collected daily, though one says weekly.

Regards, Jon S.

[caz]

Hi Robert,
Here's what Elizabeth Prater said, according to the Standard;

Elizabeth Prater wife of William Prater, who deserted her five years ago,said-I live at No.20,in Miller's-court. On Thursday I went out of the court about five o'clock,and I returned close upon one o'clock Friday morning. I stood at the corner of the court waiting for a young man. No one came up to me. I never saw my young man. I went into McCarthy's shop.
The Coroner-Was it open at 1.0am?
Witness-Yes, sir: and sometimes later. I told him to say to my young man that I had gone to my room.The Standard (London, England), Tuesday, November 13, 1888

From the way she says 'I told him' after explaining she'd been into Mccarthy's shop,makes it sound as though she spoke directly with McCarthy.
He might not have had clients pass directly to the Miller's Court girls via his shop but it looks like he acted as middle man sometimes for messages etc. and was aware of exactly what went on in the Court.

Hi Debs,

Yes, it appears that there was some kind of arrangement here, and that Prater's 'young man' either knew he could ask for her at the shop if she wasn't at the corner waiting for him, or McCarthy kept an eye out for visitors and was happy to pass on messages. I realise Prater's words may not have been reported faithfully, but I'd have expected her to refer to her landlord formally as "Mr. McCarthy" and to have "asked" him, not told him, to pass on such a message. On the face of it, it suggests that Prater felt able to be entirely open with McCarthy about her business and/or love life (whatever she meant by "my young man"), while McCarthy had no problem taking instructions from the likes of Prater. I can't see any of these women talking out of turn and pissing off the landlord, so maybe he was a lot more easy-going and tolerant than some would have us believe.

Love,

Caz
X

[lynn cates]

service

Hello Caroline. I wonder if it is even barely possible that McCarthy exacted a small fee for such a "service"? If so, and he did not begin in MJ's case until AFTER Barnett moved out, that might provide an explanation for her "arrears."

Cheers.
LC

[Heinrich]

Hello Caroline. I wonder if it is even barely possible that McCarthy exacted a small fee for such a "service"? If so, and he did not begin in MJ's case until AFTER Barnett moved out, that might provide an explanation for her "arrears." ...

Joseph Barnett had moved out of 13 Miller's Court only 10 days before he murdered Mary Kelly; not enough time to run-up such a debt.

[Debra A]

Hi Debs.
Millers Court was known colloquially as "McCarthy's Rents", and according to two press reports, rent was collected daily, though one says weekly.

Regards, Jon S.

Hi Jon,
Thanks. MJK's rent is always given as weekly total in the papers so I imagined that the rent would be collected weekly by Mccarthy.Maybe he collected the rent weekly and the arrears daily if he was keeping close tabs on these women and their earnings?

[Debra A]

Hi Debs,

Yes, it appears that there was some kind of arrangement here, and that Prater's 'young man' either knew he could ask for her at the shop if she wasn't at the corner waiting for him, or McCarthy kept an eye out for visitors and was happy to pass on messages. I realise Prater's words may not have been reported faithfully, but I'd have expected her to refer to her landlord formally as "Mr. McCarthy" and to have "asked" him, not told him, to pass on such a message. On the face of it, it suggests that Prater felt able to be entirely open with McCarthy about her business and/or love life (whatever she meant by "my young man"), while McCarthy had no problem taking instructions from the likes of Prater. I can't see any of these women talking out of turn and pissing off the landlord, so maybe he was a lot more easy-going and tolerant than some would have us believe.

Love,

Caz
X

Hi Caz,
I agree.
I also think Mccarthy was probably a very good businessman. Barnett and Kelly had lived at Miller's Court for roughly 8 months, that's over 32 weeks, yet their arrears equated to roughly 6 weeks rent, probably as a consequence of Barnett losing his job in September.
Barnett was now probably doing casual labour, picking up daily paid jobs as and when he could. If McCarthy had evicted them both he would stand no chance of ever getting the money owed back, his best chance was to let two seemingly previously good payers get back on their feet with work etc. and let them pay it off as they could? What if we don't know all the circumstances and Barnett and MJK had previously owed double the amount they did in November and had been paying it off regularly?

[caz]

A very good point, Debs. And I would imagine that if the police considered it at all relevant to their enquiries, they would have asked those kind of questions of McCarthy and got satisfactory answers. After all, MJK's body was discovered when he sent Bowyer round to collect some rent, yet no money appears to have been found in her room. So that would have made the rent situation very relevant. If she had been paying a bit each week, for example, would this imply that her killer had stolen from her, or that she had earned nothing that night?

Love,

Caz
X

[lynn cates]

hidden charges

Hello Heinrich. I was suggesting a new "service fee" for after he was gone.

Cheers.
LC