Let's narrow down some Ripper 'facts'

[lynn cates]

bifurcations and bifurcations

Hello David.

"But whatever my beliefs and gut-feelings, "Jew or not" is still THE major fracture in suspectology"

Close. The REALLY big divide is, "Was there a JTR?"

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

violence in schizophrenics

Hello Errata.

"But violent behavior is no more a hallmark of Schizophrenia than it is of Bipolar."

Absolutely correct. In fact, the violent schizophrenic seems the abberation. My research turned up that the MAIN indicator of violence is schizophrenics is, well, previous violence.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

modal, take 2

Hello Michael.

"I was responding to Lynn telling us that an Orthodox Jew couldn't have been the killer"

Once more--I NEVER said that.

"Could not" =df. "Impossible."

Such a claim is unsupportable.

I said, "Highly unlikely."

Cheers.
LC

[Errata]

I think the real sticking point for trying to deduce any mental illness from the nature of these crimes is that there is almost no behavioral symptom exclusive to any one disease. Delusions occur more outside schizophrenia than they do within it. Schizophrenics tend to have persistent delusions, but they aren't the only ones by a long shot. It is actually not terribly uncommon for people under a great deal of stress to have delusions for a little while. But it goes away, and it doesn't make them Schizophrenic. Just like mood shifts does not make someone Bipolar, and ritualistic behavior does not make someone OCD. In essence, a symptom does not a disease make.

Someone does not have to have a mental illness to do these things. And I'm not sure why Schizophrenia is the go-to disease for aberrant violent behavior. You find it quite a bit more in other diseases, and the vast majority of it is in the mentally healthy population. And to be blunt, if I'm looking for someone who is successfully killing in secret, the LAST guy I'm gonna look at is a disorganized Schizophrenic. They tend to be noticed, especially by a population who is specifically looking for the killer to be barking mad.

Those with the more... spectacular murderous fetishes tend to be made. Not born. Albert Fish, Ed Gein, Jeffrey Dahmer... products of their environment, not of their genetics. Even violent sociopaths acquire the violent part. It makes more sense that whatever was driving Jack the Ripper was not in his biology, but in his background. I think in general we need to step away from the DSM IV, and go back to good old fashioned blaming it on his mother.

[Wickerman]

...I think in general we need to step away from the DSM IV, and go back to good old fashioned blaming it on his mother.

What about his previous sexual habits?

Jon S.

[Beowulf]

"He was local, due to his familiarity with passages and backstreets."

I think he had to be local, but for how long? Could it be he familiarized himself with the streets and passaged deliberately, upon moving into town, with an eye to his secret agenda? Did he arrive just before the first murder? Was he somewhere else just before this?

Or did he 'snap' in Whitechapel?

If you consider it was his first murder then his mental health had begun to spiral downward at that point. Was he a local who was 'just' deteriorating?

If Tabram was the first murder and full blown mutilation not been attempted was Nichols the next phase of his derangement? Mutilations begun because he was unfolding emotionally in his derangement?

Or did he move into town just before the first murder and continue what he had been doing elsewhere, and Tabram was another man's work.

It would be nice to know if there were any such other attacks outside Whitechapel previously to JTR's rampage. Is that known?

[Errata]

What about his previous sexual habits?

Jon S.

We could probably blame those on his mother as well.

[The Good Michael]

Hello Michael.

"I was responding to Lynn telling us that an Orthodox Jew couldn't have been the killer"

Once more--I NEVER said that.

"Could not" =df. "Impossible."

Such a claim is unsupportable.

I said, "Highly unlikely."

Cheers.
LC

Lynn,

You said this: Hello David. Not "can't" but rather "highly unlikely."

And certainly not an Orthodox practitioner.

Cheers.
LC

Certainly not an Orthodox practitioner... this means to me that it couldn't have been one. I'm not Scottish, however, so the language may be different than what I'm used to.


Mike

[Errata]

Just so we're clear, Jews have unique laws and customs pertaining to the dead, but only one of them actually precludes murder. Cohens (the priest caste) are not allowed to touch dead bodies. And observant Cohen would adhere to this law.

The only reason our funerary laws might even pertain to this case is because a body has to be buried intact. You have to go out with what you came with. Which is why it wasn't until the late 1970s that anyone could come up with a way for a Jew to be autopsied. It is a fundamental teaching. I'm not at all observant and I don't know that I could overcome that conditioning. Does this mean that a religious Jew would not be a killer and keep a trophy? No. The Kletzky murder proves that. But in a very weird way, it's the bits strewn about that strikes me as discordant. Which I know is peculiar, but it's about on par with discovering a Buddhist is a cannibal. Not impossible, but the basic beliefs would be such a conflict with the behavior that it would be a little mind boggling. We Jews don't agree on any article of faith, but we all agree that you put the bits back in the body. The things we choose to care about.

[DVV]

Hi Lynn

Close. The REALLY big divide is, "Was there a JTR?"
Cheers.
LC

Good one (for the Jokes thread).

[lynn cates]

practise makes perfect

Hello Michael. But "practitioner" precludes the behaviour. Even if his opinions were Orthodox, his practise would not have been--given he mutilated women.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

the joke

Hello David. Along with ALL posts about "JTR"?

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Lynn, I don't think so.
I like well Perry Mason and his disciples, but I've learnt more from more reasonable posters.

[lynn cates]

ratio

Hello David. Not sure how Mike Richards fits in here.

Reasonable posters? You mean those with whom you agree? Very well.

Cheers.
LC

[The Good Michael]

Hello Michael. But "practitioner" precludes the behaviour. Even if his opinions were Orthodox, his practise would not have been--given he mutilated women.

If you can make yourself believe this is what you actually meant to suggest, you bend truth like a Kazakh university student.

Mike