Robert Louis Stevenson

[TomTomKent]

RLS believed that every human being has a good side and a bad side.
And that the good side can live regardless of what the bad side do.
My question to you, ripperologists and people interested in Jack the Ripper case is: Can Jack have been a person with this personality problem?

Possibly, but that is not enough to base your suspicions on. As has been discussed the personality problem need not be the authors. Your claims that these indicate RLS are actually, at best, an indication the criminal may have read Jekyll and Hide, but is more likely to be pure coincidence.

[jsantos]

RLS believed that every human being has a good side and a bad side.
And that the good side can live regardless of what the bad side do.
My question to you, ripperologists and people interested in Jack the Ripper case is: Can Jack have been a person with this personality problem?

[TomTomKent]

As well as other Beatles influences. He genuinely believed (or so he claims) that songs like blackbird were encoded messages inciting the Helter skelter Racial War. Oh and that he had predicted the song "sexy sadie" by letting a girl called sadie join his family.

None of that "coincidence" means Lennon and Macartney were suspects of the chainof murders however.

[ChrisGeorge]

For other examples look at how the bible, or lyrics of the beatles, etc, are all supposed to have predicted some act or other. See also anything credited to Nostrodamus.

The Manson Gang and the words "Pig" scrawled in blood at the Sharon Tate murder scene, supposedly inspired by the Beatles song "Piggies" on the White Album comes to mind. Mastermind Charles Manson is said to have been a number of the tracks on the album, including "Revolution No. 9," "Happiness Is A Warm Gun," and "Helter Skelter."

Chris

[TomTomKent]

The other possibility, though in no way a probability, is that Jekyl and Hide was a Catcher in the Rye of its day. Any coincidence between it and the murders do not require the author tobethe killer. One of the thousands who read the book could have been inspired.

Of course these coincidences are the product of confirmation bias, which could be applied to any readily available text of the time. For other examples look at how the bible, or lyrics of the beatles, etc, are all supposed to have predicted some act or other. See also anything credited to Nostrodamus.

[ChrisGeorge]

Thanks, Greg. Poe wasn't around to take on the case, but Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was .... and actually, when you think about, Conan Doyle he might make a better candidate for Jack (maybe) than RLS or Walter Sickert or Lewis Carroll, who each seem to have both been elsewhere at the time. Trained physician, experienced in writing about mysteries and thinking about murder... need I go on?

Chris

[GregBaron]

RLS a disciple...

Edgar Allan Poe is a good example of a writer using his reading and experiences to concoct his stories. A sentient writer such as Poe or RLS can create a tale without having actually lived all of the details of the story. "William Wilson" was based on his experiences while he was attending a school in Stoke Newington, London, when he was briefly in Britain with his foster father, Scottish-born John Allan, a Richmond tobacco merchant. "King Pest" is believed to have been partly based on the fact that Poe lived in U.S. East Coast cities such as Baltimore during cholera epidemics of the early 1830's, though he set the story in Europe in medieval times. "The Mystery of Marie Roget" was based on an actual murder case -- the finding of the body of a New Jersey woman in the Hudson, but he transposed the story from the United States to Paris

Exactly ChrisGeorge and well said....we could go on of course..."Masque of the Red Death" about experiences with tuberculosis..again with a medieval setting........"The Gold Bug"...army experiences on the Islands off South Carolina..."Descent into the Maelstrom" his experiences at Sea...others he may have completely pulled out of his imaginative head....."The Black Cat" or "A Cask of Amontillado" for example...........I'd expect the murders in Poe's tales would far outnumber those of RLS's and I believe the worst of accusations against Poe were a few drunken brawls............it's a shame Poe wasn't alive during the Autumn of Terror as I imagine the inventor of detective fiction would have loved to take on the case..........


Greg

[ChrisGeorge]

I believe Psycho was based on Ed Gein TomTomKent but I otherwise accept your position...

I must congratulate jsantos on one thing, I now intend to read the 'Ebb-Tide'
as this is one I'd neglected...

One can read 'The Picture of Dorian Gray' as a confessional of sin enacted in low life places...........this brings Oscar Wilde into the suspect picture.......although I don't recall anyone seeing a rotund dandy prancing about in blue velvet...

Also, like nearly everyone writing in the 19th century, RLS was influenced by Edgar Allan Poe who wrote tale(s) of dual identity.......off the top I think William Wilson may have been one.........anyway, I'd put Poe on the list except that he died in 1849.......this I would expect hurts his candidacy....


Greg

Edgar Allan Poe is a good example of a writer using his reading and experiences to concoct his stories. A sentient writer such as Poe or RLS can create a tale without having actually lived all of the details of the story. "William Wilson" was based on his experiences while he was attending a school in Stoke Newington, London, when he was briefly in Britain with his foster father, Scottish-born John Allan, a Richmond tobacco merchant. "King Pest" is believed to have been partly based on the fact that Poe lived in U.S. East Coast cities such as Baltimore during cholera epidemics of the early 1830's, though he set the story in Europe in medieval times. "The Mystery of Marie Roget" was based on an actual murder case -- the finding of the body of a New Jersey woman in the Hudson, but he transposed the story from the United States to Paris.

Chris

[TomTomKent]

As I already said "Dr. Jekyll And Mr. Hyde" contains many coincidences with Jack`s story. And these coincidences are not bigger because RLS was forced by his wife to burn his first version of the "Dr. Jekyll And Mr. Hyde". Then he committed the crimes and then it can talk about them in the form of a fictional story, without being censored. Writing a confession - "The Ebb-Tide".

How exactly could you possibly know what was in the burned manuscript? How can you be sure there are more or fewer coincidences in either version?

You can't. This is not a theory or hypothosis. This is speculation and wishful thinking.

[GregBaron]

Love of Literature...

Robert Bloch did not have to be John Wayne Gacy to write Psycho

I believe Psycho was based on Ed Gein TomTomKent but I otherwise accept your position...

I must congratulate jsantos on one thing, I now intend to read the 'Ebb-Tide'
as this is one I'd neglected...

One can read 'The Picture of Dorian Gray' as a confessional of sin enacted in low life places...........this brings Oscar Wilde into the suspect picture.......although I don't recall anyone seeing a rotund dandy prancing about in blue velvet...

Also, like nearly everyone writing in the 19th century, RLS was influenced by Edgar Allan Poe who wrote tale(s) of dual identity.......off the top I think William Wilson may have been one.........anyway, I'd put Poe on the list except that he died in 1849.......this I would expect hurts his candidacy....


Greg

[jsantos]

No one can convince me that Jack the Ripper has nothing to do with the story of Dr. Jekyll And Mr. Hyde.

As I already said "Dr. Jekyll And Mr. Hyde" contains many coincidences with Jack`s story. And these coincidences are not bigger because RLS was forced by his wife to burn his first version of the "Dr. Jekyll And Mr. Hyde". Then he committed the crimes and then it can talk about them in the form of a fictional story, without being censored. Writing a confession - "The Ebb-Tide".

In the last chapter of the book "Dr. Jekyll And Mr. Hyde" is also dedicated to a confession.

And this is not just a coincidence. Jack used to say he loved games and would continue to play...

[TomTomKent]

O of course they may not be coincidences because RLS was a writer, who like everybody else had read about the most publicised murders in human history. He, like several other writers before and since, took inspiration from real events.

There is a chain of logic here that you have yet to follow. You seem to be suggesting that RLS could ONLY have based his writings on the JtR murders if he was JtR. Yet you have failed to show thaat he had any knowledge that could not have been gained from simply reading a newspaper.

You go further by suggesting that if RLS was not in Samoa it was an alibi for being JtR, with out proving he was not in Samoa, that he was in Whitechappel, or any of the steps in between. Each step takes us further from the Null, and each is based on increasing speculation and fewer facts.

Assume for a second that RLS was in Whitechappel. Does that make him JtR? Or is it equally possible that if he happened to be hanging out with other literay types in London when the JtR killings hit their stride he might do what writers do, and make notes, do research, and get all the "coincidental knowledge" with out having to kill the prostitutes himself? That itself ignores the very real possibility that he may have simply read about the case in the deluge of press cover. The coverage was world wide. It was exactly the kind of subject we would expect RLS to taake an interest in, so why not?

As with Sickert you are basing your case on evidence of knowledge that only Jack, and anybody who read a newspaper, could possibly have had. Making it far from exceptional, and it is something we have seen before and since with other writers. Harris did not have to be Ted Bundy to use traits from that case when creating the "Tooth Fairy" in Red Dragon. Robert Bloch did not have to be John Wayne Gacy to write Psycho. And so forth.

[jsantos]

"I assume there is a problem with translation here..." - Tom
You have absolutely right, I don`t understand the question. I`m Sorry.

"This is also a non-answer. You may well have read any number of letters, biographies, or papers. But you have supplied nothing that answers the question either way. Again there should be a simple "Yes he was in the area" with evidence, or a "no, I do not know if he was there"." - Tom
Again, you have right.
"Why do you think Jack was never caught and Jacks identity remains unknown?" I`ll try to explain what I mean by this question.
In my opinion, "The Ebb-Tide" is a confession. In this book are several references to the fact that RLS has committed the crimes and his escape to Samoa in a boat. Once again, in my opinion, there are too many coincidences with events that have happened in reality. And I don`t believe in these coincidences. So if RLS was Jack the Ripper, is evident that he was in Whitechapel from August to November 1888, and their escape to samoa was a hoax. Why do you think Jack was never caught and Jacks identity remains unknown? Because RLS made everyone believed that he was going to samoa at the time that Jack committed the crimes. If RLS would never be caught, no one would suspect them. There is no better alibi. But in "The Ebb-Tide", it leaves the idea that the trip to Samoa was a hoax and he escaped by boat only when he was close to be arrested.

[TomTomKent]

Are there any other indications in RLS's wider published or unpublished writings that he was JtR?
Like all other theories, someone has to be the first...

I assume there is a problem with translation here, as that answer makes no sense regarding the question. The question asks if there is any indication in the writings of RLS, published or otherwise, to suggest he was JtR (or by extension any form of mental illness that could be suggestive of psychopathic tendencies in general). The answers should be "Yes" (with evidence) or "No".

The answer given was "Someone has to be the first". To do what? To interpret the writings? To have read them? It appears to be answering a different question. Sorry.

I answer with a simple question: Why do you think Jack was never caught and Jack`s identity remains unknown?

This is also a non-answer. You may well have read any number of letters, biographies, or papers. But you have supplied nothing that answers the question either way. Again there should be a simple "Yes he was in the area" with evidence, or a "no, I do not know if he was there".

Suggesting a conspiracy with a "well why do you think..." answer weakens the case. It suggests you will attempt to use a lack of evidence as evidence itself, and smacks of the sheer unbridled sillyness of your earlier suggestion that Mac might have protected RLS because he was Scottish and a bit famous.

The null hypothosis for your question "Why do you think Jack was never caught and Jacks identity remains unknown" is not that Jack was somebody famous, influential, or any form of conspiracy. It is that Jack was one of several million residents of London who did not happen to be famous, and the Police investigation was unable to identify with enough evidence to prosecute.

Of course I have to add the caveat that depending how you interpret the documents available written by varying officers related to the case the identity could be understood as being "unknown" only to the wider public. The documents we do have, such as the marginalia, that were written for personal use (and have no reason to lie or promote any conspiracy) lean away from your "theory", suggesting that RLS is a bad fit for the case in general.

What does seem to underpin this argument, and many of the attributes you apply to RLS being "like" JtR does suggest you are cherry picking evidence from the Ripper end to fit the theory, as well as cherry picking which aspects of the life of RLS you think sounds somehow sinister. One of your points was that RLS had known prostitutes. And we are surprised at this? How many other men of his age in his time took illicit trade? Should we suspect them as well?

[jsantos]

I think it has nothing to see the fact if RLS whether or not a great writer.

About your questions:
As I already said, "The Ebb-Tide" is a fictional story. I read several editions of the book, all in English and I doubt that the essence of this history is changed.

Is there any indication from a writer (other than you) that RLS might have had murderous intent or psychological problems?
First I`m not a writer and I just wrote things about RLS life that I read from other authors. If Phil understand that Robert had some psychological problem... What is proven is that RLS understands that every human being is duo. Many of his works speak about it. And that our good side can live regardless of what the bad do.

Are there any other indications in RLS's wider published or unpublished writings that he was JtR?
Like all other theories, someone has to be the first...

Have you ever consulted RLS surviving papers? where are they kept? what do they indicate? Where was RLS in the period August - November 1888 based on his surviving records, diaries, letters etc etc?
In my opinion, the only pertinent questions.
Of course I consulted several RLS books, several RLS letters, etc.
I answer with a simple question: Why do you think Jack was never caught and Jack`s identity remains unknown?