John Douglasī Profile

[Cuervo]

Hy Barnaby and Errata,
So we agree with the biological factor. The "disagreement" comes from the weight each of us puts on it (in my case, sometimes more than anything else as I think sometimes envioronment has nothing to do with some traits).
Well, I would like to ask you for your opinion on another thing, and in this case I have to regconize it is not with the porpouse of creating debate but to really learn a bit of the matter. My question is about the group of friends. I know serial killers have been shown as loners when teenagers and when adults, (appart from Gacy, for example, who was "a star"). Do you think there may be an influence from the group of friends in terms of pairs who approve of antisocial behaviour?

[Barnaby]

This is related to something called the diathesis-stress model of psychological disorders. It is a reasonable assumption that there is a genetic component (diathesis) that puts some at risk of becoming serial killers. Of course it hasn't been identified although most likely it is a combination of genes usually including those on the Y chromosome Anyway, in the (hopefully) small portion of the population at risk, a trigger (such as child abuse) is necessary or else the pattern of behavior will remain unexpressed. Likewise, even intense child abuse will not create a serial killer in those without the biological risk factor. Genes put people in the "potential" serial killer category and stressors determine which of those actually become serial killers.

It's just like depression. We know from twin and family studies that the heritability coefficient is strong. But, a person at a high risk for depression might never become depressed if not exposed to an environmental stimulus to trigger it.

[Errata]

How many of those abused choirboys turned into serial killers?

Zero!

That we know of. Regardless of whether or not there is a causal relationship between sexual abuse and serial killing, it is not wholly out of the question that there is a serial killer running around out there who was molested by a priest.

[Wickerman]

When Gary Ridgway was young, his mammy ridiculed him in front of the entire family for bed-wetting. 40 years later, Ridgway was convicted of killing 48 women....

A few decades ago the dirty little secret the church had kept quite for close on half a century was finally exposed. Priests & choirboys and the abuse that stemmed over generations. I think you all know the type of humiliating abuse I am talking about, sex in the cloisters....

How many of those abused choirboys turned into serial killers?

Zero!

[Errata]

Hi Errata
Iīm not talking about the psychological point of vew of paraphilias, Iīm talking about the legal point pof vew in terms of considering a suspect someone responsible of his/her acts or not.
If you check out researches abour psychopaths you could see some behavioral problems since the first years of life in safe and healthy families. We can not stay attached to the abuse theory when some other things are being proved.
Anyway Errata, I suposse we follow different psychological models as well, and thatīs fair enough. Itīs really good to share different outcomes. Thanks a lot for your replies.

I actually completely believe in a biological component to serial killers. When I say that profiling is playing the odds, that's all I meant. If for some reason 90% of serial killers had brown hair, that would be included in a profile. It's a statistical model of who the police should look for.

Child abuse does not create serial killers. I think there may be a link in that people with the biological markers for violence come from parents who also had those markers. Thus it seems likely that a sociopath comes from another sociopath, or a violent killer comes from a violent parent. I think genetics is the actual key to that statistic. The serial killer has inherited a trait from a parent that caused that parent to be violent towards the child, who in turn grows up with the same trait, and starts killing people. Less psychology more biology in other words.

Parents abuse children for a lot of reasons. If you pare it down to people who abuse their children because of a structural defect (say, a poorly developed frontal lobe), and then you pare that number down to children who inherited that structural defect, and then pare that number down to children with the defect who have created a positive experience from killing, then you get serial killers. And with all of those factors it would explain why most abused children do not kill.

[Cuervo]

Hi Stephen
All brutalizers were brutilize as children? I donīt think so. Some have been, but some werenīt.
As well, the fact that not all abused became criminals as adults invalid the abuse theory...therefore there must be something else or not only the abusing suffered playing the game. We must look at everything not only at one reason

[Cuervo]

Hi Errata
Iīm not talking about the psychological point of vew of paraphilias, Iīm talking about the legal point pof vew in terms of considering a suspect someone responsible of his/her acts or not.
About the childhood abuse...well are we talking about just to say that most serial killers were abuse or are we talking about that being the reason? To become a serial killer is not to follow the cycle of violence is something different. I repeat, if we donīt control some other variables we can be assuming wrongly that children abuse is the reason of such thing as serial killing. And I repeat again, how many abused children didnīt become antisocial adults. How many patients in Broadmore were not abused? and how many criminals knowing this argument made up abusing stories about their childood?
If you check out researches abour psychopaths you could see some behavioral problems since the first years of life in safe and healthy families. We can not stay attached to the abuse theory when some other things are being proved.
Anyway Errata, I suposse we follow different psychological models as well, and thatīs fair enough. Itīs really good to share different outcomes. Thanks a lot for your replies.

[Errata]

I once read an interview with the head psychiatrist at Broadmoor (Britain's mental home for criminal lunatics) where he said that he had never met even one patient in over 20 years that hadn't suffered abuse in childhood.

Not terribly surprising. I think the current statistics are that 1 in 4 women will be sexually assaulted before the age of 18, and 1 in 6 men. It's amazing that the population is as sane as it is.

[Errata]

Hi to all
Necrophillia and all paraphillias are very present in serial killing. Another thing is if it considered as a mental problem, specially by the law.

About the FBI...I really admire what they have been doing and the big names, but I still canīt see the thing with the maltreatment in childhood (I include sexual abuse). There is lots of research which prove that most of abused childer donīt even become batterers as adults.

Paraphilias by definition are dysfunctional sexual practices, and therefore mental illnesses. Nothing wrong with a little S&M in the bedroom, but if it gets to the point that it interferes with a person's daily life, it becomes a paraphilia. Some things are so maladaptive that they cannot be anything other than an interference with a normal crime-free life, so they automatically get put into the category.

The thing about profiling and serial killers is that in most instances it's playing the odds. Most serial killers were victims of horrific abuse as children. It's a safe assumption to make that any given serial killer was therefore abused. As far as most people not becoming abusers, that's true. But it's something of a species/breed issue. All doberman's are dogs, but not all dogs are dobermans. Humans as a species do not tend to continue the cycle of violence, but serial killers as a breed of human do. It's a hallmark of the breed, not the species.

[Stephen Thomas]

I still can't see the thing with the maltreatment in childhood (I include sexual abuse). There is lots of research which proves that most of abused children don't even become batterers as adults.

Hi Cuervo

That's misleading logic. Indeed, not all brutalised children become brutalisers, thank God, but all brutalisers were brutalised as children. I once read an interview with the head psychiatrist at Broadmoor (Britain's mental home for criminal lunatics) where he said that he had never met even one patient in over 20 years that hadn't suffered abuse in childhood.

[Stephen Thomas]

Hi Errata

Once upon a time John Douglas appeared on a British daytime TV show called The Richard and Judy Show which was very popular then. He did his interview and was back in the hospitality room when he was suddenly called back before the cameras to comment on the breaking news of the Dunblane school massacre in Scotland. With very scant information and talking off the top of his head live on air and away from his own country he described in considerable depth the likely psychological profile, age etc and likely motive of the murderer all of which turned out to incredibly accurate.

Like him or not he has to be doing something right.

[Cuervo]

Hi to all
Necrophillia and all paraphillias are very present in serial killing. Another thing is if it considered as a mental problem, specially by the law.

About the FBI...I really admire what they have been doing and the big names, but I still canīt see the thing with the maltreatment in childhood (I include sexual abuse). There is lots of research which prove that most of abused childer donīt even become batterers as adults.
I go more with biological theories which talk about personality traits which are influenced by environment of course, but which sometimes are so strong that environment has nothing to do. If you joint bad personality traits and bad environment, of course you have the explosion.
Iīm have done some research for my Phd thesis and Iīve seen this, specially in some subjects who really fit the diagnosis of psychopathy.
It was very good when at the FBI intervewed all those serial killers but the control of variables wasnīt that well inspired. If you find that many serial killers were abused, you have to look at some other things and be sure that there arenīt some other things interfering. You have to control variables.
Even though, many good points were found (I donīt deny that), but Iīm sure appart from childhood abuse, there are some other things that are never taken into account.

Best

[Errata]

Ridgway was never diagnosed with a mental disorder though necrophilia must count as abnormal in some psycho-analytic category.

It's in the paraphilia category, and as far as paraphilias go, not even a little the weirdest one. I had to give a presentation on them in an Abnormal Psych. Worst school assignment EVER.

As a rule I try to disagree with Douglas wherever possible, but I think I have to agree with the last sentence of that profile. I believe his mother was providing the image for his victims. Transference in a nutshell.

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

Mothering issues

When Gary Ridgway was young, his mammy ridiculed him in front of the entire family for bed-wetting. 40 years later, Ridgway was convicted of killing 48 women (though he confessed to 71 murders) and committed necrophilia with some of them. That was some revenge on his mammy for laughing at him when he was young!
Ridgway was never diagnosed with a mental disorder though necrophilia must count as abnormal in some psycho-analytic category.

[Cuervo]

Hi Corey and Barnaby,
Thank you very much for your welcome.
The thing with the mother comes from a psychoanalityc or psychodinamic point of view in Psychology. I disagree with it, it is like mothers have always to be blame (I prefer other psychological models).
I agree with the coment about the "mother issue" by Barnaby. I even donīt see Ted Bundy and Ed Gein as "mother issues". The first one attacked women who resembled like one of his girlfriends (the rich one who dropped him) and Ed Gein was a psychotic. Iīm sure there are some other serial killers with mothers issues (I canīt remember at this very moment), but...how many without mother issues? and how many people in the world with mother issues who are not serial killers?
I see Jack the Ripperīs case more like a Sadistic Serial killer, I mean a sexually sadistic man.