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The probabilities of the MM '3'..A possible scenario?

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  • The probabilities of the MM '3'..A possible scenario?

    Hello all,

    I thought I would take the time to present a scenario, that has partly, or in other forms, been adressed before. It concerns the three named suspects in the Memoranda. This is not a thread where the memoranda itself is questioned, but it's written meaning.

    It is a "given", these days at least, that we can rule out Ostrog as a realistic suspect. We know, thanks to Philip Sugden, that the case against Ostrog is dead in the water. He was, in all essence, a common thief. Sadly, although a well known criminal of long standing with crimes both in England and on the continent, his whereabouts at the time of the Whitechapel murders is now known to have given him a perfect alibi. He was in prison. Did Sir MM know of this? I suspect it likely that he did know of it.

    Of the other two suspects, I turn first to Aaron Kosminski. When considering the case against this man, Kosminski's own record must be looked into.
    The only time he had been before a judge, that we know of, is for walking a dog without a muzzle. He is not seen or named or both by any person seen at the scene of any crime, nor named nor seen at the time by any policeman.
    It is not until long after the murders that this man is presented to us as a suspect. Here, we are presented with the contention of his insanity, and his likely danger to others or not. We must therefore consider Kosminski's asylum records, and balance them against the type of person that may or may not have slaughtered up to 5 women. If it were not for an unamed Polish Jew suspected in Sir Robert Anderson's memoirs in 1910, we would still not be lead towards a back up theory for the 2nd of the MM '3'.

    It is only when the Swanson Marginalia arrived in 1987, 99 years after the murders, that greater weight supporting this man's possible guilt is arrived at. However, it must be stressed here, that no written document has ever provided the much-needed proof that would be in any way admissible for anyone judging the case to lable Aaron Kosminsky as the Whitechapel murderer. Swanson saying that "Kosminski was his name" in written marginalia of Anderson's book without providing proof of this identification (the supposed Seaside Home identification is unsupported and unproven, and can infact apply to at least one other known suspect), is not anywhere near conclusive enough to lable this man a murderer of one person, let alone one who created the carnage of Whitechapel and district. In addition, given his asylum records as we know them, he gives little indication of being a multiple murderer of destitute women. Again, did Sir MM know of this? I suspect it likely that he did know of it.


    We turn then to Montague Druitt, the 3rd of the MM '3'. We have no evidence that this man ever hurt any female. We have no evidence that he was, infact, insane. Only a suspicion that he himself feared he would go the same way as his mother, quoted by his brother at his inquest. We do not know his whereabouts on the nights of each of the murders, and no description given definitively matches Druitt. Continual comments from Sims, a well-reknowned journalist and friend of Sir MM, over a period of time backs the statement that a person died near the end of the year, found in the Thames on Dec 31st 1888, and that he was Jack the Ripper, mean absolutely nothing. A total lack of supported evidence against this man is apparent. Did Sir MM know of this? I suspect it very likely that he did know of it.


    So why are we, the intereststed party 117 years after the memoranda, still wondering why was Sir MM even bothered to write of these 3 very weak suspects? It has been explained by various well known writers that the reason for him writing this paper, was in response to an expected internal question from the Home Office who may have felt pressured into talking more of the murders and the outcome of the investigation by a daily national newspaper, The Sun, who in turn had named yet another suspect, Cutbush. In the memoranda, Cutbush is very quickly dismissed as a suspect. Sir MM seemed likely to know much of this "suspect" too.

    It seems clear to me that Macnaghten chose and exploited these three people for his own purposes, a harmless yet real figure called 'Kosminski', a.k.a. 'the Polish Jew suspect'. A Russian criminal called Ostrog who was in all essence a thief, and a barrister with personal problems who conveniently comitted suicide straight after the murders.

    All three do have things in common. Known connection with the Whitechapel murders? None. Known resemblance to a multiple-murderer-type personality? None. Traceable, or in existance, at the time of writing the MM (1894) in response to the Sun's articles? None at all. No one could likely have traced them even if this memoranda HAD been released to the Sun.

    It seems to me that all three 'suspects' are deliberate attempts to quell one simple solution in the eyes of the public...

    Namely that the police had absolutely no idea who Jack the Ripper could have been or was, or whom the murderers could have been or were, and not in a million years did the police at the time ever want to be seen to have failed in capturing this maniac, or these killers. If there was a cover-up of sorts, then this is where the cover-up is most likely.

    Some have suggested a cover-up to keep the spotlight away from Cutbush. Possible.. but then I would have expected the memoranda to have been sent to the Sun newspaper to quell and quash the rumour.

    No. More likely a cover-up of shame. Shame of total ineptitude. A police force at odds with itself and in the higher ranks, at odds with their peers. Governed poorly, the bobbies on their beats were the real scapegoats.

    And those who really suffered? The poor and the destitute, the ordinary men women and children who continued to live in utter fear of "Jack the Ripper", itself a name invented and cast upon them by those wishing to manipulate despicable murder in their midst.

    It's a scenario that smacks of self-righteousness from some individuals upon other innocent individuals and even more innocent wafts of the East End population. Possible? Perhaps it is.

    At least perhaps, something for us all to consider?

    best wishes

    Phil
    Last edited by Phil Carter; 03-12-2011, 06:43 AM.
    Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


    Justice for the 96 = achieved
    Accountability? ....

  • #2
    To Phil Carter

    I think that is a perfectly legit theory because Macnaghten is so enigmatic.

    I agree with you about Ostrog and Kosminski.

    R. J. Palmer made a really astute point, a few years ago, on these message boards. That Aaron Kosminski's incarceration happened when Macnaghten was already on the Force, in fact he had been there for eighteen months or so.

    That strongly suggests that he has backdated a weak suspect -- if a 'suspect' at all -- to being 'removed' in March, 1889 (before he joined?) because he knows that Feb 1891 is ludicrous as it is so late.

    Sims, a Mac source by prozy, in 1907 rules out the Polish Jew because he was out and about for a 'considerable' length of time.

    Where we disagree, and I could so easily be wrong, is about Druitt.

    That Macnaghten was serious about this suspect, who was also semi-fictonalized. Kosminski and Ostrog were window-dressing.

    Why is Druitt different?

    I am taking Macnaghten's memoirs, to a certain extent, at face value. In there [the un-named] Druitt is everything, and Kosminski and Ostrog are not worth mentioning even to debunk.

    I do not think Sudgen was telling Macnaghten's ghost anything he did not already know about Ostrog.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hello Jonathan,

      Thank you for that summary and fair opinion. Yes, we do disagree about Mr. Druitt, and like you say, we both could be totally wrong! There are no guarentees in this lark, not by a long chalk.. even if it is written in stone on a wall.

      best wishes

      Phil
      Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


      Justice for the 96 = achieved
      Accountability? ....

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Phil Carter View Post
        Hello Jonathan,

        Thank you for that summary and fair opinion. Yes, we do disagree about Mr. Druitt, and like you say, we both could be totally wrong! There are no guarentees in this lark, not by a long chalk.. even if it is written in stone on a wall.

        best wishes

        Phil
        My interpretation of the memorandum is that he didn't name those as his 3 suspects, rather he stated they were 'more likely' suspects.

        Perhaps a better question is this: "why did he feel the need to do that at that point in time?" Seems to me he had a vested interest in debunking the Cutbush theory as opposed to proposing that the police had a good idea of the JTR's identity.

        Comment


        • #5
          Macnaghten didn't know anything. That's the problem with the MM. Only Swanson and Anderson really knew, and the former more than the latter. What they knew is arguable of course. Maybe it was more of nothing. What the MM wasn't was a conspiracy.

          Mike
          huh?

          Comment


          • #6
            No not a 'conspiracy', as it only involved one person: Macnaghten.

            Swanson thought -- if this is his opinion -- that Kosminski was dead soon after. In 1894, Macnaghten knows that this person is still alive in the madhouse.

            What both versions off Mac's Report hid, and hid well, was that Druitt was entirely a posthumous suspect, something he finally revealed in his 1914 memoirs -- but it was obvious from the frantic way the police dealt with Cutbush in 1891 that he must be a too-late suspect.

            I think Mac knew everything about Druitt; he even knew that his brother, William, was desperately trying to find him after he vanished.

            Mac knew about season train pass found on his water-logged body. If you know that then you have at least seen PC Moulson's report on the recovery of the corpse. If you have seen that, then you know that Chiswick is too far for the 'furious madman' to have staggered 'shrieking' and 'raving' to kill himself supposedly immediately after Kelly in the early hours of Nov 10th 1888 (hence no mention of the Thames in his memoirs)

            Comment


            • #7
              Hello Michael,

              Just for a moment, let's take a look at this seriously shall we?

              You do not see the possibility of a damage limitation excercise being launched if the go-ahead was given by the Home Office by telling Sir MM to get something ready and release it should it be needed? It happens all the time in real life. That isn't a conspiracy by any stretch of the imagination. It is quite realistic.

              Also, if you are correct that "Macnaghten didn't know anything", then one document naming Kosminski can be completely ignored, by your own standards, can't it?
              .
              That leaves only ONE document naming Kosminski. Namely an annotation in another person's book (Sir Robert Anderson's memoirs) that shows no proof of corroberative evidence to back it up. That makes the Kosminski theory VERY wobbly indeed. Anderson didn't name him remember, just a Polish Jew.

              There is no OFFICIAL evidence that Kosminski was even known to the police at the time, and here I quote from Nicholas Connell and Stewart Evans', "The Man Who Hunted Jack the Ripper, Edmund Reid-Victorian Detective" published by Amberley, 2009 edition, page 141. Here they are quoting Dr. Percy Clark, who in an interview with The Observer newspaper, 14th May 1910 (note:- shortly AFTER the release of Sir Robert Anderson's "The Lighter Side Of My Official Life")...says the following:

              East London Observer: Mr. George R Sims states that the man committed suicide.
              Dr. Percy Clark: That is really supposition. As far as I heard- and I think I heard most about the cases- there was never the slightest clue to anybody.
              The whole thing was theory.


              On the 23rd October 1910 the Morning Advertiser quotes the detective at the head of the hunt for the killer, Edmund Reid himself writing directly to them from his home in Hampton-on-Sea, amongst other things...

              "Now we have Sir Robert Anderson saying "Jack the Ripper" was a Jew. That I challenge him to prove, and, what is more, it was never suggested at the time of the murders." (page 138)

              He also states further...

              "...I challenge anyone to prove there was a tittle of evidence against man, woman or child in connextion with the Ripper murders."
              (page 139)

              This from a Detective at the helm of of the case. Not a pen-pusher in Scotland Yard.

              So the MM '3' becomes a very wobbly scenario if one examines the evidence against it. Unless somebody, somewhere comes up with evidence that Kosminski was indeed suspected at the time, he remains in the same boat as Ostrog. I am however inclined to believe that the case for Druitt is slightly different, but not by much. At least the evidence of him dying at the end of the year is proven. And the manner of his death. However, no known evidence against the man being a murderer, nor woman abuser of any kind, nor is there evidence of any insanity unless one believes a quote from his brother apparently quoting Druitt himself as evidence of insanity, and not just that he was troubled....exists.

              Jonathan is right. He believes in Druitt as a different case, but says that he could be wrong. What is abundantly clear is that the memoranda is woefully lacking.

              best wishes

              Phil
              Last edited by Phil Carter; 03-12-2011, 09:03 PM.
              Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


              Justice for the 96 = achieved
              Accountability? ....

              Comment


              • #8
                cops and their dicta

                Hello Phil. I agree that the MM looks like damage control.

                Now compare with brave, brave Sir Robert's TLSOMOL. There we have a cocksure copper whistling past the graveyard, as it were. Whilst Littlechild seems to be giving a nosy investigator a child's toy (no pun intended) and telling him to run along and play.

                On the other hand, Sir Charles, in his October speculations, hits the nail square on the head (I believe).

                Finally, the brainy chap, Monro, finally figured it all out--much to his utter disgust.

                Cheers.
                LC

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Phil Carter View Post

                  More likely a cover-up of shame. Shame of total ineptitude.

                  Phil
                  Hi Phil

                  I like this, and tend to agree. It would apply to Anderson's theory as well.

                  Amitiés
                  David

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    QUOTE=DVV;169146]
                    More likely a cover-up of shame. Shame of total ineptitude.

                    Phil

                    Hi Phil

                    I like this, and tend to agree. It would apply to Anderson's theory as well.

                    Amitiés
                    David[/QUOTE]

                    Ignorance is bliss, it also feeds the Conspiracy theorists.

                    Monty
                    Monty

                    https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                    Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Lol....Read Anderson again, it's clear he couldn't accept his failure.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Heh heh....read the dictionary.

                        Find out the difference between ineptitude and failure.

                        Monty
                        Monty

                        https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                        Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                        http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          No need to be a Sherlock Holmes to understand that one can explain the other, héhé !

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            But perhaps Phil meant "inaptitude" ?

                            Ask him.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Ho ho, no....surprisingly they are quite different.

                              Monty
                              Monty

                              https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                              Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                              http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                              Comment

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