Name your top 3 suspects with top 3 reasons why you think so...

[lynn cates]

slow walker

Hello Adam. That's a good idea. I think it likely that Long heard 5:15, NOT 5:30.

Recall that she left her home in Church-row at about 5:00 AM. Why would it take 30 minutes to reach Hanbury? She would be a really slow walker if so.

Cheers.
LC

[Tom_Wescott]

Chainz,

Bury attempted to make the murder look like a Ripper copycat, but did a poor job.

Adam,

I was offering an explanation as to why Cadosch did not look towards his fence, because clearly he did not, or else he must have noticed whether or not someone was on the other side of the fence. He wasn't even certain the sounds came from 29.

Regarding Lynn's post and the idea that Mrs. Long heard the 5:15 chimes, I recommend reading Dave Yost's 'Long vs Cadosch', which originally appeared in Ripper Notes 8 or 9 years ago. It might be posted here in the Dissertations section or over at the forums.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

What is very clear, though, is even the San Francisco reports state that Scotland Yard certainly did want Tumblety’s handwriting samples, specifically, Henderson. This does support Tumblety being a JTR suspect. If he was not a suspect, there would be no reason for the samples.

That’s very true, Mike. While some have recently questioned whether Tumblety was ever really a police suspect there is evidence, such as Anderson accepting Crowley’s offer of handwriting, that shows that he was. Add to this Scotland Yard asking the NYPD to keep an eye on him and the fact that Littlechild had heard of him and stated that he was among the suspects should leave little doubt. The real question, however, is how good a suspect was he?

That absolutely no one involved in the Whitechapel Murders investigation mentions Tumblety; the fact that he was bailed twice from police custody, and then not even watched; that the investigation continued long after Tumblety had left London, never to return, coupled with Littlechild getting his facts wrong (and was obviously only giving his own opinion on Tumblety’s worth as a suspect) should show to the unbiased observer that Tumblety wasn’t thought much of as a suspect. He certainly wasn’t the primary suspect but, according to his own words, among the hundreds who were stopped, brought in, questioned and then released with no actual evidence against them.

He was obviously, at one point, of interest – an Irish American doctor with, to the Victorians, criminally deviant sexual tendencies who was found wandering around the East End – but that interest was soon dissipated.

Wolf.

[mklhawley]

Wolf,

As always, your comments are well thought out and thorough. A class act.

Sincerely,

Mike

[Simon Wood]

Hi Wolf,

Given the ever-repeating dynamic of the police keeping the WM pot boiling by implicating a multiplicity of suspects against whom there was never a shred of evidence, Anderson's acceptance of a sample of Tumblety's handwriting from Chief Crowley should not come as a surprise. It had nothing to do with Tumblety's candidature as a Ripper suspect. Anderson had to say "yes". Had he said "no" it would have exonerated Tumblety, ruining the carefully contrived press fanfare which heralded his arrival in New York and blowing the pretext for Inspector Andrews' prolonged sojourn in North America.

Dazzle and confuse.

Trust you're well.

Regards,

Simon

[mklhawley]

Hi Wolf,

Given the ever-repeating dynamic of the police keeping the WM pot boiling by implicating a multiplicity of suspects against whom there was never a shred of evidence, Anderson's acceptance of a sample of Tumblety's handwriting from Chief Crowley should not come as a surprise. It had nothing to do with Tumblety's candidature as a Ripper suspect. Anderson had to say "yes". Had he said "no" it would have exonerated Tumblety, ruining the carefully contrived press fanfare which heralded his arrival in New York and blowing the pretext for Inspector Andrews' prolonged sojourn in North America.

Dazzle and confuse.

Trust you're well.

Regards,

Simon

Simon,

I disagree with this, but man, can you write! I love your style. By the way, have you published the Captain Streeter stuff or is it coming later? I am quite interested in it.


Sincerely,

Mike

[Simon Wood]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the compliment. All the Captain Streeter stuff is in the Ripper Magimix, and I will serve it as soon as I've got rid of all the lumps.

Why do you disagree with my Tumblety-Crowley-Anderson jive?

Regards,

Simon

[mklhawley]

Oh, it has nothing to do with the validity of your argument specific to the available evidence. It's all quite logical. I also agree with you about him manipulating the press. I just see a higher level of interest in Tumblety than just hiding his true agenda.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Mike,

By 1888 Britain could boast of the most efficient police/intelligence service in the world. Nulli secundus, in fact. With this in mind it's hard to believe that the high-profile Tumblety, even if remotely suspected of involvement in the WM, would have been bailed twice and afterwards managed to slip through a complex network of detectives and port-watchers with such consummate ease, and all without a whiff of interest from the UK press.

Tumblety tells us more about what Anderson et al were up to in America than he does about the WM.

Regards,

Simon

[mklhawley]

Hi Simon,

I believe your assessment is very accurate. My thought, though, is Scotland Yard met their match. Here's a guy who was skipping boarders between countries in order to elude conviction for decades. He was an expert at getting out of legal issues.

I do believe Scotland Yard was so effective as to push their influence upon British papers to not focus upon Tumblety. Besides, if Tumblety was JTR, he was no longer a threat to the British public. If he was not, the British public would prefer threatening suspects still in Britain.

Here's my take on the press after reviewing so many Tumblety articles. I purposely matched them up on a timeline, and I believe it has reveal something. My plan was to try an get a feel of how the public felt during these publications. Once one newspaper got ahold of a potential Jack the Ripper suspect on their way to the United States, it went viral (Novembr 23, 1888). Check the dates. When I read the first few articles and the sensational style of writing, I got excited. Just think of the Americans at that time. This was big news, but specifically American big news.

Just my thoughts.

Sincerely,

Mike

[The Grave Maurice]

I disagree with this, but man, can you write!

Yer roight. Don't he talk posh?

[Hunter]

I do believe Scotland Yard was so effective as to push their influence upon British papers to not focus upon Tumblety. Besides, if Tumblety was JTR, he was no longer a threat to the British public. If he was not, the British public would prefer threatening suspects still in Britain.

If they had that kind of influence on the British press, it must have been the first time in this series that it happened. Much of the press, and the Pall Mall Gazette in particular, didn't cut Scotland Yard much slack.

[mklhawley]

You're right about that, Hunter. There is certainly a full story with the Pall Mall Gazette.

Mike

[Adam Went]

Hi Lynn & Tom,

Lynn:

That's a good idea. I think it likely that Long heard 5:15, NOT 5:30.

Recall that she left her home in Church-row at about 5:00 AM. Why would it take 30 minutes to reach Hanbury? She would be a really slow walker if so.

Yes, that's a very good point too.....if anything you'd think she'd be hurrying along to try and keep warm! I mentioned elsewhere before that presumably she didn't actually see or look at the clock when she heard it strike, she just heard the sound and thought "Oh, must be 5.30...". Glad to see you support the hypothesis anyway....

Tom:

I was offering an explanation as to why Cadosch did not look towards his fence, because clearly he did not, or else he must have noticed whether or not someone was on the other side of the fence. He wasn't even certain the sounds came from 29.

Why must he have? My point all along has been that the fence was apparently 5'6 tall. Now we know Annie was much less than that, so that covers that, therefore, either JTR was less than 5'6 tall also, or else they were holding a conversation while bending, sitting, or whatever. And why would they be doing that on a cold, wet ground? It makes no sense.

Surely the most likely explanation has to be that they were standing in the backyard talking, they were both less than 5'6 tall, and that's why Cadosch didn't see any heads poking over the top of the fence? But I know you'll disagree with that, because it damages the case against 6 foot Le Grand...

Regarding Lynn's post and the idea that Mrs. Long heard the 5:15 chimes, I recommend reading Dave Yost's 'Long vs Cadosch', which originally appeared in Ripper Notes 8 or 9 years ago. It might be posted here in the Dissertations section or over at the forums.

Thanks for the tip. I have some old Ripper Notes issues so will see if it's in any of those when I get the chance as well.....

Cheers,
Adam.

[lynn cates]

time

Hello Adam. Thank you. Of course, in looking carefully at Mrs. Long's testimony, she does indicate "about 5" when she left home. Moreover, she could've stopped off for a cuppa or some chat along the way. But I think that unlikely. Given the purpose of an inquest and the pointed questions asked--all aimed at ascertaining the truth--I find it probable that she would have indicated any such stop over.

As it turns out, the Yost dissertation is on Casebook. I found it here:

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-yostlong.html

I had a go at it myself, and it seems that Mr. Yost is of the same opinion as you about the time. Actually, it seems such a simple inductive inference that I am taken aback that the coroner didn't notice the discrepancy at a moment's consideration.

I find your hypothesis, then, quite likely. The University where I work has a clock that chimes every quarter hour. On many occasions, when not properly attending, I can hear it strike but forget whether it is the quarter, half, or three-quarters hour.

Cheers.
LC