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Name your top 3 suspects with top 3 reasons why you think so...

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  • mklhawley
    replied
    Originally posted by Gman992 View Post
    I'll give you my top three who DIDN'T do it.

    1). Sir William Gull--seventy years+stroke victim--probably couldn't even pick up a knife to butter his bread without difficulty.
    2). Prince Eddy--wasn't even in town when the murders happened.
    3). Dr. Franicis Tumblety--a dandy, charaltan, teller of tall tales, most likely gay-meaning he wouldn't be killing women, he would be killing gay men, very distinguished looking-I mean people would've noticed this guy, and very probably drop dead at the site of blood. Also, wasn't he in jail when Mary Kelly was killed?

    Excuse me Tom, but I need to address this.

    I transcribed this from the New York Times November 23, 1888

    SOMETHING ABOUT DR. TUMBLETY.
    SAN FRANCISCO, NOV. 22. – Chief of Police Crowly has lately been in correspondence with officials of Scotland Yard, London, regarding Dr. Tumblety, who is at present under arrest on suspicion of being implicated in the Whitechapel murders. The Chief, in pursuing his investigations, discovered that the doctor still had quite a balance in the Hibernia Bank, which he left there when he disappeared from this city, and which has never been drawn upon. Mr. Smythe of that institution says that he first met the doctor in Toronto, where he was practicing medicine in July, 1858. He next met him in this city, at the Occidental Hotel, in March or April, 1870, and then disappeared as suddenly as he came. In 1871 the doctor turned up in New-York. On Oct. 29 Chief Crowley sent a dispatch to the London detective, informing them that he could furnish specimens of Tumblety’s handwriting, and to-day he received an answer to send the papers at once.


    Notice at the time of the writing this article, Tumblety was in custody at Whitechapel and Scotland Yard had contacted San Francisco’s Chief of Police a second time in order to gain handwriting samples of Francis Tumblety. It certainly looks to me they considered him a serious enough suspect to attempt a handwriting comparison (From Hell letter?). Also, it must have been quite the investigation to discover handwriting samples far off in a location (San Francisco) where Tumblety last visited nearly 20 years prior. Were they merely making a case for gross indecency? Hardly.

    Also notice when Scotland Yard first contacted the Chief of Police in San Francisco, OCTOBER 29. This was well before Tumblety was first arrested on Nov 7, 1888. What is the significance of this? The arguments from those who claim Tumblety was merely arrested on November 7, 1888 for gross indecency, thus, was never considered a serious JTR suspect by Scotland Yard, must now be seriously re-evaluated. Now, one could say that newspaper articles always get their facts wrong, but one must then explain how the reporter came up with so many amazing details.

    It is also interesting that many ripper enthusiasts 120-plus years later consider it a ridiculous notion for Tumblety to have been considered a serous suspect, when Scotland Yard certainly did. I place my credibility with Scotland Yard.

    Anyone waiting for June 15!

    Sincerely,

    Mike

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  • Tom_Wescott
    replied
    Originally posted by Roy Corduroy
    Again, awaiting your exposition of Le Grand. Kosminski was named six years after the fact, Chapman fifteen years.
    Oh no! Once again I find myself in Corduroy's 'Court of Roy'! I hear what you're saying about Koz and Chapman, and as a matter of fact, just a few weeks ago, I was saying to Adam Went that Chapman was not a police suspect, but based on his points, and a re-reading of Sugden's section, I decided to change my mind. After all, Denis Rader was not named as a BTK suspect until almost 30 years after the murders, but he turned out to be the guy. Don't get me wrong, there's virtually no chance that Chapman was the Ripper, but the suspicion against him was firmer and came from the man who headed the Ripper investigations at the street level. In the case of Kelly, presuming he actually was suspected of the Ripper crimes, he seems no different than the other 1000 men who were dragged in, looked at, and cleared in the year following the Nichols murder. One of the factors that intrigues me about Le Grand is that he seems to have first fallen under suspicion in late 1888 or early 1889 and remained under suspicion and investigation for many years.

    Regarding Kosminski, he was certainly suspected by Anderson and probably Swanson and endorsed by Macnaghten as a suspect (albeit a less-than-likely one), so there's better documentation for him than anyone else. By contrast, Tumblety was only endorsed by Littlechild, who had nothing to do with the Ripper investigation (but who would certainly have known people who did), and Druitt was only endorsed by Macnaghten, another pencil pusher who suspected his man for all the wrong reasons (because he was a doctor, homosexual, and killed himself right after the Kelly murder). Had he bothered to learn the facts about Druitt, he would have discounted him immediately.

    This is rather short and sloppy (you'll have to excuse me, I'm writing hurridly at work) but explains why I feel only Le Grand and Kosminski emerge as strong, viable suspects..outside, of course, of Gull, Maybrick, and Carroll, who surely must top the list.

    Yours truly,

    Tom Wescott

    Leave a comment:


  • ChainzCooper
    replied
    Hey Sara,
    Yes I have read The Diary of Jack the Ripper and enjoyed it very much. As far as James Kelly goes there is a great book you may want to check out called Prisoner 1167 ;The Madman who was Jack the Ripper which profiles him as JTR. This guy escaped from a mental asylum after he killed his wife and was on the lam for years until he turned himself back in in 1927. He was an upholsterer and the way he gutted furniture may have been the way he gutted the prostitutes.(This would explain the 'trade name' reference in the Dear Boss letter his upholstering trade name of Jack) Anyways,its a well researched and interesting book.
    Jordan

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  • Roy Corduroy
    replied
    Good afternoon, Tom

    Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
    Le Grand, Kosminski, and Chapman were indeed police suspects.
    Again, awaiting your exposition of Le Grand. Kosminski was named six years after the fact, Chapman fifteen years.

    I don't personally think I'd call Kelly a police suspect, at least not in the way I mean it.
    Detectives went looking for him right after the tragedy of Miller's Court. James Kelly was a contemporary suspect, who police sought while the trail was hot.

    Roy

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  • mattwill
    replied
    Whether he was Jack or not, I'd still like to know what Kelly meant by being on the "warpath". Is it possible that he killed again in all those years abroad? He got away with murder once, and if that didn't boost his ego, I don't know what would.

    Another thing to think about. Even if police officials thought of him as a good suspect years later, would they publicly announce it anyway? Him being on the loose still after all. Just a thought.

    Well, my ramblings are done for the day.

    Oh, wait, who do you all like for the Torso Slayer?

    Leave a comment:


  • Tom_Wescott
    replied
    Hi Roy,

    I don't personally think I'd call Kelly a police suspect, at least not in the way I mean it. I'm not sure I'd call Druitt one, either, and possibly not Tumblety (although I might change my mind on that next week). But Le Grand, Kosminski, and Chapman were indeed police suspects.

    Yours truly,

    Tom Wescott

    Leave a comment:


  • Roy Corduroy
    replied
    Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
    ...the real police suspects!
    James Kelly was a real police suspect, too.

    Looking forward to your essay, Tom. And if you have swung a book deal, all the better, and congratulations.

    Roy

    Leave a comment:


  • Tom_Wescott
    replied
    Originally posted by Adam Went
    I'm certainly looking forward to your explanation of how Le Grand could be 6 feet tall and have all the major witnesses describe somebody far, far shorter than that. Plus the fence over which Albert Cadosch heard a bump was 5'6 tall, if it was Le Grand on the other side, Cadosch should have been able to see the colour of his coat, eh?
    My essay is mostly hard fact. I don't get too much into explanations or speculation, so I'm afraid you'll have to wait for my book, although I assure you the explanation for my your first question is a simple one. As for Cadosch, I posted about this on the forums yesterday. He had just had stomach surgery, was very uncomfortable, and was apparently going into his backyard to use the privvy. He did not look towards the fence and spent the entirety of the time inside the privvy, where he could not see anything but the walls around him. As for Le Grand's height, I'm willing to wager that the Ripper did not mutilate Chapman with his toes while standing up, thus must have been hunched over well below the fence line.

    In any event, if this thread is anything to go by, the Ripper was either William Gull, Lewis Carroll, James Maybrick, or William Bury, or perhaps a collaboration of all four, so we're just spinning our wheels looking at the real police suspects!

    Yours truly,

    Tom Wescott

    Leave a comment:


  • tji
    replied
    Hi all

    For those who know me they won't be surprised to know my number one suspect is :-

    Jacob Levy - He just seems to fit for me.

    2 Hyam Hyams. He is very similar to Jacob Levy however Jacob just seems to have that edge. One problem I have with Hyams against Levy was that he was a fruiterer, Levy was a butcher.

    3 Francis Tumblety - this was is for sentimental reasons. He was the person that got me interested in Jtr.


    Tj

    Leave a comment:


  • Adam Went
    replied
    Radical Joe:

    My apologies, I didn't see your earlier post mentioning Lewis Carroll. Sometimes it seems to be just about name-dropping when it comes to JTR suspects. With that in mind, who's going to create more interest to your average outsider, the author of Alice in Wonderland or the butcher with syphilis? Unfortunately some people don't let the facts get in the way of such hypothesis, but that's the way it is - however, Levy definitely needs to be out on his own.

    W.H. Bury is definitely far from being the worst suspect out there either...

    Cheers,
    Adam.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gman992
    replied
    I'll give you my top three who DIDN'T do it.

    1). Sir William Gull--seventy years+stroke victim--probably couldn't even pick up a knife to butter his bread without difficulty.
    2). Prince Eddy--wasn't even in town when the murders happened.
    3). Dr. Franicis Tumblety--a dandy, charaltan, teller of tall tales, most likely gay-meaning he wouldn't be killing women, he would be killing gay men, very distinguished looking-I mean people would've noticed this guy, and very probably drop dead at the site of blood. Also, wasn't he in jail when Mary Kelly was killed?

    Leave a comment:


  • SaraCarter33
    replied
    Don't know about james kelly, however as for maybrick i won't say maybrick was JTR, but in my eyes i consider him to be a strong suspect that's just my opinion anyways. come to think of it i need to get back into my research of JTR.


    have you read the diary of jack the ripper by shirley harrison? that book goes into great detail about mr maybrick.
    Last edited by SaraCarter33; 06-08-2010, 08:13 AM. Reason: typo

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  • ChainzCooper
    replied
    Whats up everyone,
    I would say from the general JTR books and JTR suspect books I've read the two (don't have a third yet) that intrigue me the most are James Maybrick and James Kelly. I just recently purchased Jack the Ripper:Unmasked and from what I've read on the boards here William Bury seems like a strong suspect,considering the manner he killed and mutilated his wife. Has anyone read this book and what did do you guys think about it?
    Jordan

    Leave a comment:


  • mklhawley
    replied
    Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
    You got that right. I'm not saying Le Grand was the Ripper, because I don't know that he was, but he's certainly the best suspect put forth yet. I think he will eventually emerge as the favored suspect because:

    1) He has a cool name - Charles Le Grand. 'Jack the Ripper' is famous because he, too, had a cool name.

    2) He was no mamsy pamsy nancy boy like Tumblety and Druitt, or chronic spanker like the Koz. He kept a house full of women and knew how to get paid.

    3) He was a true Alpha Male - 6 ft tall, an arsenal of weapons, and a firm pimp hand.

    I hope it doesn't seem like I'm being overly scientific in my approach to the facts, but let it be said that my suspect could beat up all the other suspects, and therefore deserves his place at the front of the line.

    Yours truly,

    Tom Wescott
    I like your thinking, especially the first one, but my Tumblety would just hire some thugs to do the dirty work. Problem is, his thugs would probably lose.

    Sincerely,

    Mike

    Leave a comment:


  • Adam Went
    replied
    Tom:

    I'm certainly looking forward to your explanation of how Le Grand could be 6 feet tall and have all the major witnesses describe somebody far, far shorter than that. Plus the fence over which Albert Cadosch heard a bump was 5'6 tall, if it was Le Grand on the other side, Cadosch should have been able to see the colour of his coat, eh?

    But I shall be objective and reserve judgement until I have the chance to read the entire article.....

    Cheers,
    Adam.

    Leave a comment:

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