Isenschmid(t) Records: Part 2

[Lechmere]

One other possible lead as to where the records may have ended up – it would seem that some stuff was taken to Finland for some obscure reason.
Also on whose authority was Isenschmidt to Grove Hall – the Police or his Board of Guardians. Who picked up the tab? Wasn’t he from Islington, so might there be a record there?

[lynn cates]

thanks

Hello Lechmere. Thanks.

Pity.

Cheers.
LC

[Lechmere]

I can report that Tower Hamlets Local History Library do not hold any medical records relating to Grove Hall Lunatic Asylum nor any papers owned by Dr Mickle.
They have a couple of interesting books.

'The Trade in Lunacy' by William Parry-Jones is an account of the mad house ‘farming’ business. Local and central government would ‘farm out’ its lunatics to the private sector, at least until the 1850s, thereafter the public sector took on a greater role.
There were a number of outcries over mistreatment, brutality and poor conditions where the well being of the patients came second to profit – that has a familiar ring to it and a similar situation exists today in old people’s homes.

By 1850 half of the country’s licensed private mad houses were in East London – the bigger merchant’s houses had become unfashionable and were converted and there was a ready supply of lunatics and people to work there.

There was a bad brutality case in Grove Hall in 1845. It opened in 1844 and was owned by Edward Bias or Byas and was one of the more successful and longer lasting private houses. It’s private status is clearly why the papers haven’t survived.
In 1859 out of 359 people confined, 173 were paupers paid from the public purse and sent by local Boards of Guardians
In 1860 it houses 118 military lunatics at the expense of the central government
In 1870 it was licensed for 452 patients
Someone called Alonzo Stocker became the Medical Superintendent in 1854 and he considerably raised the standards of care.

There is another work by Elaine Murphy (East London and the City Health Authority, 81 Commercial Road, London E1 1RD) called 'Mad Farming in the Metropolis', published in 2001. I will reproduce a few excerpts about Grove Hall in due course. I am fairly sure she checked all the available sources for extra information about Grove Hall but she may know a bit more.

[lynn cates]

Holloway and Leather Apron

Hello All. Oops, look like I missed this one.

Eltham road Holloway? Try Elthorn road. This is from "The Echo" September 10, 1888. Notice that this return "home" was the same day as the Chapman murder. I have often wondered why Isenschmid was denounced on the 11th. This story may help explain that.

By the way, if you look at Mary's deposition to Thicke, she notes that he returned home whilst she was gone, right around the first of September. He had taken some fresh clothing then.

A change of clothes September 1 and a visit September 8. Glad he favoured clean clothing.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

igitur

Hello Jason.

"External enemies of the Russian state you mean?"

Indeed.

"Of which Paris was the most serious."

Correct. But in mid 1888, many of these "dangerous" people were congregating in east London.

"The double event would have been an outstanding achievement with only a couple of weeks planning. Especially impressive carrying it out in London."

Again, correct. That is why I am so keen to identify "friends" to whom Rachkovski or Milevsky might have applied for help.

"Sorry, count me out."

No need to be sorry. You are an adult and must make up your own mind. If you are happy with the current FBI "analysis" I would urge you to stay the course.

Cheers.
LC

[jason_c]

Hello Jason.

"Internal Russian affairs were the main focus."

But of whom? Certainly not their Paris Branch which concentrated on EXTERNAL affairs.

Cheers.
LC

External enemies of the Russian state you mean? Of which Paris was the most serious. The double event would have been an outstanding achievement with only a couple of weeks planning. Especially impressive carrying it out in London.

Sorry, count me out.

Probably posted elsewhere, but heres an excellent link

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/books-and-monographs/okhrana-the-paris-operations-of-the-russian-imperial-police/5474-1.html

[lynn cates]

Paris Branch

Hello Jason.

"Internal Russian affairs were the main focus."

But of whom? Certainly not their Paris Branch which concentrated on EXTERNAL affairs.

Cheers.
LC

[jason_c]

Hey Lynn, I don't think that the mind(s) behind the "Protocols" were interested in anything but encouraging pogroms against the Jews in Russia in order to take the focus off the totaly bankrupt policies of the last Zarist Gov't.

The group within the Okhrana that made sure that copies of the forgery would appear on the desks of all major players in state departments around the world certainly had the ability to orchestrate something like the "double event"; however, I can't see them bothering as they had more important damage control projects within the Russian kingdom on their minds.

Please do check-out Cohn when you find the time.

All Best Wishes, Mike

That was gonna be my take on it too. Internal Russian affairs were the main focus.

As for could the "author" of protocols organise the double event, who the heck knows?

Ian Fleming could write a good yarn, but other than being a mid level cog in "operation mincemeat" he was hardly known for real world counter-intelligence abilities.

[lynn cates]

Paris Okhrana

Hello D'Onston. Thanks.

I'm not too sure that the Paris branch of the Okhrana would be concerned with Russia's internal affairs. They were delegated to keep an eye on Russia's enemies located externally to Mother Russia.

Cheers.
LC

[D'Onston]

Hey Lynn, I don't think that the mind(s) behind the "Protocols" were interested in anything but encouraging pogroms against the Jews in Russia in order to take the focus off the totaly bankrupt policies of the last Zarist Gov't.

The group within the Okhrana that made sure that copies of the forgery would appear on the desks of all major players in state departments around the world certainly had the ability to orchestrate something like the "double event"; however, I can't see them bothering as they had more important damage control projects within the Russian kingdom on their minds.

Please do check-out Cohn when you find the time.

All Best Wishes, Mike

[lynn cates]

reason

Hello Jason. You might wish to have a go at Butterworth in this regard. The Okhrana's alarm at the proliferation of Russian Jewish Socialists is what prompted Rachkovski and Milevsky to set up their London office in 1888.

The idea is that, if there was a popular reaction to Jews/Socialists (brought on by "misbehaviour"), Britain might rethink her stance towards granting refuge to these people.

There is much in my "Kaufmann" thread that you might find helpful here. In particular, Arnold White's discussion of a popular "Juden hetze" I think, shows what would drive engineering something like a "Double Event."

Cheers.
LC

[jason_c]

Lynn, That The Protocols of Zion are anti-Semitic trash is a given I believe though, the author who was working for the Tsarist Okrana at the time, could indeed have been smart enough to arrange the double event.

Lynn, Yankee,

Why would such an individual conspire to arrange the double event?

[YankeeSergeant]

trash

Lynn, That The Protocols of Zion are anti-Semitic trash is a given I believe though, the author who was working for the Tsarist Okrana at the time, could indeed have been smart enough to arrange the double event.

[lynn cates]

threat/execution

Hello Jason. AK's "threat" does not add up to an execution thereof.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

devious mind

Hello D'Onston. No intrusion at all.

Please permit me to ask, do you think that a devious mind which could hatch such anti-Semitic trash could also devise a "Double Event"?

Cheers.
LC