Suspects for Astrakhan man?

[Roy Corduroy]

Unfortunately, nothing has survived in the police files to explain how and when this came about.

Likewise, nothing in police files about their trip to Cottage Lane. Seems like they had several irons in the fire.

Still, the case of Joseph Isaacs makes you wonder. Some reports said he was suspected of being involved in the Annie Farmer attack on George St. Police would have discovered, however that Isaacs was in jail in Barnet at that time.

Had the police completely given up on the Hutchinson description? Especially since here was a man reported to have been near the Kelly crime scene at the time by Ms. Cusins, somewhat fitting Hutchinson's description, acting hinky at night and leaving. To me it's hard to say the police had blocked off the Mr. Astrakhan avenue completely.

Taken by degrees, and not all in black and white, Joseph Isaacs may be the closest thing the police had to Mr. A.

Roy

[Ben]

Hi Roy,

The Cusins account of his behaviour would have been enough to warrant a very serious investigation into Isaacs, even if he looked nothing like Mr. Astrakhan, and as I mentioned earlier, there's no evidence that the police were interested in him because of his appearance. One press account used the word "discredited" but it was reported elsewhere that a "reduced importance" was attached to Hutchinson's evidence.

Best regards,
Ben

[Sam Flynn]

The Cusins account of his behaviour would have been enough to warrant a very serious investigation into Isaacs, even if he looked nothing like Mr. Astrakhan, and as I mentioned earlier, there's no evidence that the police were interested in him because of his appearance.

Furthermore, the Daily News only says that Issacs "matched the description of a man seen wearing an astrakhan coat" - it doesn't actually say that he was wearing an astrakhan coat at the time. Let's face it, Hutchinson gave such a detailed physical description of Mr Astrakhan - height, complexion, hair, eyebrows, whiskers, ethnicity, gait, age - that the clothing seems almost superfluous.

[Roy Corduroy]

We find fault with Hutchinson's description of Mr. A. He describes a man too expensively clothed for the neighborhood late night. His account is too detailed in many ways, as you say, Sam.

After thinking it over, the police might have reached the same conclusion then which we do today. But does it follow they tossed his entire account of seeing a man with the murder victim at 2 in the morning? That's like throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Roy

[Ben]

Indeed, and an excellent point, Gareth.

Hi Roy,

But does it follow they tossed his entire account of seeing a man with the murder victim at 2 in the morning? That's like throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Hutchinson's account may have been the proverbial bathwater if the press reports were accurate, and subsequent police reports and memoirs would suggest they were. Even if the police bought into the account, but considered the description embellished, they could still have used Hutchinson in subsequent suspect-ID attempts in preference to the Jewish witness(es), but it appears they didn't even do that. In fact, in Hutchinson's account was the thrown-out bathwater, than his Astrakhan description may well have been the cheap shampoo-caked bit of baby sick that didn't quite make it down the plug-hole*.

Best regards,
Ben

*A few pints of W.J. King's old ale, and the analogies lose their finesse. Apologies to all.

[Roy Corduroy]

*A few pints of W.J. King's old ale, and the analogies lose their finesse. Apologies to all.

No apology needed, Ben. Good to hear from you.

Another lodger at Mrs Cusins establishment, Cornelius Oakes, said the man in question (Isaacs) changed clothes a lot. Joseph Isaacs has more points in common with Mr. A than anyone I can think of.

That was Uncle Jack's original question I believe, Who was A-Man.

Roy

[richardnunweek]

Hello All,
Ok So if we discount hutchinson, and the sighting of a man with a distinctive look meeting up with Mjk, what are we left with?
We have George Hutchinson deliberately placing himself at the crime scene, for no apparent reason , which would be rather foolish to say the least, not only from police suspicion, but also the public, who might have notions that he may be the killer.
And we have therefore if rejecting the whole Hutch scenerio, the strong possiblity that the next two sightings of kelly at 8am [ Maurice Lewis] and 815am [Maxwell] may well be accurate.
Although this goes against medical opinion, we are fully aware that victorian medical knowledge of T.O.D was hardly trustworthy, and to be honest is not a science even today.
So If Astracan did not exist, then kelly I believe was killed around 9am,
If he did exist, I am still not convinced he was the killer, although not conclusive.
Regards Richard.

[Sam Flynn]

Another lodger at Mrs Cusins establishment, Cornelius Oakes, said the man in question (Isaacs) changed clothes a lot. Joseph Isaacs has more points in common with Mr. A than anyone I can think of.

We don't know of any points of commonality, Roy, other than that he resembled Mr Astrakhan's description in some way. We certainly don't know that Mr Astrakhan changed clothes a lot - although he was apparently able to change the colour and thickness of his hair, as well as his complexion, if Hutchinson's discrepant statements are to be believed.

[Roy Corduroy]

We don't know of any points of commonality, Roy, other than that he resembled Mr Astrakhan's description in some way. .

Hi Sam, that is a point of commonality. Joseph Isaacs resembled the description in some way. He was also Jewish, short in stature and 30 years old. And the report of him was from right in the neighborhood.

Roy

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Sam, that is a point of commonality. Joseph Isaacs resembled the description in some way. He was also Jewish, short in stature and 30 years old. And the report of him was from right in the neighborhood.

Indeed, Roy, and he may have matched roughly the age height, complexion, gait, moustache and eyebrow requirements, too. There's no reason why such a person couldn't be said to "match the [detailed and multi-dimensional] description of a man [once] seen wearing an astrakhan coat" even if he were wearing a donkey-jacket, rather than said astrakhan coat, when arrested.

[Roy Corduroy]

Joseph Isaacs on page 202 of SYI "He fitted the description given by Hutchinson and published in the newspapers."

Whether he kept a donkey jacket in his wardrobe or not.

Roy

[Sam Flynn]

Indeed, on page 202 of a very fine book indeed, but not the original source.