mann

[Radical Joe]

Hello Joe. It's a very interesting theory. Moreover, like most people on the boards, I would give a large sum to see this thing put to rest and have the naughty boy (or girl) identified and the case officially closed.

I agree that theories deserve a proper hearing. Of course, there seem to be some theories which can be dismissed a priori. I am thinking of any theory which includes Queen Victoria in drag or Elvis Presley as the ripper.

The Best.
LC

Don't knock the 'Presley' theory Lynn. Where do you think he got the inspiration for 'In the Ghetto' and 'Jailhouse Rock' from? And I'm sure I remember Priscilla Presley say he looked like a 'shabby genteel' when she first met him.

[lynn cates]

thanks

Hello Joe. Good observation.

All I can reply is:

"Thank ya, darlin'. Thank ya verruh much."

LC

[Chris]

TBH, I find it bemusing that people who post on a forum dedicated to JTR could be hoping that a theory fails or suggesting it's 'for the best' that it does fail before they've even heard the theory.

There is actually a reasonable amount of information about the theory in the press reports that have just appeared. Unless they are suppressing a dramatic piece of new evidence, I think the outline of the theory is pretty clear.

[Radical Joe]

Hello Joe. Good observation.

All I can reply is:

"Thank ya, darlin'. Thank ya verruh much."

LC

Oooh, Lynn, I'm all shook up.

Here's one back at ya: "Who luvs ya baby?"

Sh*t, that's Kojak.

There is actually a reasonable amount of information about the theory in the press reports that have just appeared. Unless they are suppressing a dramatic piece of new evidence, I think the outline of the theory is pretty clear.

'reasonable amount'...perhaps, however, none of us know what proportion this information makes up of his overall theory or how it fits into the context of his theory. As I've said, I'm interested to see if and how Trow counters some of the obvious objections to his theory. I'm prepared to hold fire until sunday (only five days away).

If you (or anyone) decides to dismiss his (or anyone's) theory in advance of it being put forward in context, that's your right, of course.

[lynn cates]

hearing

Hello Joe. I agree. Let's hear what he has to say. Frankly, I hope he does a good job.

Of course, I hope the explanations are simple so an old chap like myself can follow them. And I very SINCERELY hope it does not require doubles (Dr. Cream); or double names (Kaminski/Cohen); conspiracies (Royals or Freemasons); or, females in drag (Jill the Ripper). Above all, I trust that Mann was neither Polish nor Jewish and I pray he did not masturbate.

Here's hoping.

Cheers
LC

[miss marple]

workhouse

Mann seemed to have spent most of his life in the workhouse. At night he would have been locked in he dormatory with the other male inmates. The idea that a workhouse pauper would be roaming the streets at night picking up prostitutes is not remotely possible. Workhouses were not lodging houses, but feared prison like places with strict and cruel regulations.
Cheers Miss

I know this has been said before, but the fact of the workhouse destroys any case against Mann.And being a mortuary attendant would not have any special privilages, everyone worked at awful and degrading jobs in the wokhouse.

[Radical Joe]

Hello Joe. I agree. Let's hear what he has to say. Frankly, I hope he does a good job.

Of course, I hope the explanations are simple so an old chap like myself can follow them. And I very SINCERELY hope it does not require doubles (Dr. Cream); or double names (Kaminski/Cohen); conspiracies (Royals or Freemasons); or, females in drag (Jill the Ripper). Above all, I trust that Mann was neither Polish nor Jewish and I pray he did not masturbate.

Here's hoping.

Cheers
LC

I doubt your prayers will be answered on that count Lynn. Late nights, working in isolation, dead prostitutes on display. What man could resist?

But I agree, let's hope it's at least a credible theory, preferably with some tangible evidence to back it up. Or, failing that, at least a couple of golden nuggets that offer new lines of research or clear up existing peripheral disputes.

[lynn cates]

possibility

Hello Joe. That's a possibility. Perhaps Mann, like Kosminski, had the situation well in hand.

LC

[Radical Joe]

Hello Joe. That's a possibility. Perhaps Mann, like Kosminski, had the situation well in hand.

LC

Eureka! The title for my new book: 'Jack the Ripper was a W*nker - Case Closed.' Who could argue with that? I'll throw in a few laughably outrageous, and unsubstantiated, claims for good measure, ridicule anyone whose theories conflict with mine ("A eunuch? I'll hear no such thing") and BINGO, I too could be lauded on here.

Or not.

[c.d.]

Hi Miss Marple,

I am not clear on what you are saying. Is it an established fact that he was in a workhouse during the Autumn of 1888 or just speculation?

c.d.

[Fisherman]

Radical Joe writes:

"Well, it certainly won't be for the best for the proposer of the theory (Trow) and, likewise, surely anyone who genuinley wants to discover the identity of the Ripper would like to hear a compelling argument put forward that has them thinking 'hmmm...now that's interesting'.

TBH, I find it bemusing that people who post on a forum dedicated to JTR could be hoping that a theory fails or suggesting it's 'for the best' that it does fail before they've even heard the theory."

I found it interesting from the outset, Joe - not least because I know that there is sometimes a connection inbetween serial killers and a wish to work at places like morgues and such. It is a simple thing to understand.

When Mann is pinpointed as a 52 year old inmate, though, I think we are dealing with something a lot less interesting. I am not ruling him out as such, but I have seen far too many a pound made on wild speculations that had better never been raised to become anything but a cynic, Iīm afraid. And Mannīs candidacy seems to do very little to change that wiew so far.

I have, however, tried to order the book, but it seems it is already sold out, and so I shall have to wait and see. The optimist in me tells me itīs him for sure - but the cynic usually wins the bout...

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

C.d asks:

"Is it an established fact that he was in a workhouse during the Autumn of 1888 or just speculation?"

Itīs in the inquest papers on Nichols, c.d - he is presented as a workhouse inmate: "Robert Mann, the keeper of the mortuary, said the police came to the workhouse, of which he was an inmate."

The best,
Fisherman

[c.d.]

Thanks for that info, Fisherman. It certainly seems to raise serious doubts.

c.d.

[Chris]

There is a useful page on Mann in the Wiki section of this site:

http://wiki.casebook.org/index.php/Robert_Mann

[Fisherman]

From the Evening News:

"On the morning of her murder this poor woman's body was taken to the mortuary attached to the Whitechapel Workhouse, and there undressed and washed by two men, pauper inmates of the workhouse. Decency might have found two women paupers, but idiocy could not have supplied two more incapable men. Robert Mann and James Hatfield, unprovided with material in the shape of body or brains to gain subsistence in the great world, are consigned to a workhouse, and there given power to interfere with the investigations of men with whom brains is a necessity, or their existence is a failure. Robert Mann yesterday did not know exactly what had happened on the morning of the murder, and the coroner explained that "the witness was subject to fits," and "that his statements are hardly reliable." James Hatfield was even less reliable. He cut off some of the woman's clothes, and tore down her chemise, but he swore she wore no stays. Upon this, the foreman exclaimed, "Why, you tried the stays on the body of the deceased in my presence at the mortuary." That two such men should have been allowed without instructions from the police to proceed to cut the clothes, wash the body, and possibly destroy traces that would have aided in the detection of the criminal is so preposterously stupid that it could not exist anywhere but in London. The time has surely come when the police stations of the metropolis shall have proper mortuaries attached to them so that the help of epileptic paupers warranted to forget what they have done shall not be brought into requisition."

The best, all!
Fisherman