Did Jack the Ripper even exist?

[Nothing to see]

Well this will be interesting. The last time I tried to reply to you I lost this site for 2 hours. It's all your fault.

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

Hi Crystal,

No, it happened in the district of Westminster (not really East End), but location aside I just refer to it in order to point at its gruesome character - worse than the Stride murder - combined with the fact that it happened the very same night as the Double Event (which is an interesting coincidence in itself).
I don't think it was ever linked to the Ripper murders, but it did get some press coverage in its own right. But of course, the two alleged Ripper murders the same night got most of the attention.
The murder of Sarah Browne in Westminster was a domestic killing; poor Sarah had for some time been quite afraid of her violent husband and he had displayed some disturbing traits lately. Sraha had tried to get him confined and she feared for her life. Unfortunately the authorities didn't do anything about it and then this happened. It is indeed a tragic case, because what happened was exactly what she was afraid of.

All the best

That's interesting. John Browne was local, I take it? Was it in Whitechapel that this murder took place? Do you know if the contemporary press linked this murder with the double event if this is the case?

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

Stride and Kelly's murders are actually very dissimilar compared to one another - Stride "only" had her throat cut, and not to the same degree as in the Ripper killings, while Kelly was totally butchered so there is no need whatsoever to subribe those two to another killer who did both. That would be just silly.
In fact, the same night as the double event John Browne of Westminster cut his wife's throat and stabbed her in a much more gruesome manner than what we see in Stride's murder (ad note it was the same night!), but we don't accuse him of being the Ripper.

As I said, using the "same time period" as a valid argument is usless, since so many other gruesome murders DID in fact happen outside of the C5 around the same time as the Ripper murders. So I find that to be a very strange and ill-founded argument, the same goes for the arguments based on the location.

But there can be no question that Jack was "real boy" since he did in fact murder at least three women, which would undobtadly make him a serial killer.
But I also think he is a phenomenon partly created by the press and the hysteria in many ways.

All the best

[Nothing to see]

Jack was a real boy. He did 5. I include Stride and Kelly. You can't not include them and say there wasn't another murderer. No, I don't think Tabram. Not Jack's style. Stride and Kelly as domestics? It's a possible theory if their murders had happened at any other time. But they didn't. They were Jack's gets. Too much similarity to belong to anyone else. IMO.

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

Are we reading the same thread? I'm not so sure. Only Nicholls, Chapman and Eddowes. Well, you must have definitive proof that only they are linked.

Only that they share similarities and trademarks, with the same intent and direction and the same focus on certain areas of the body, that makes them difficult to disregard. They are so similar on those points that they must be viewed as fallen victim to the same offender.
It shall also be noted that this view has been put forward quite many times during the last years and by different people so it's nothing new.

Of course, that the rest should have fallen victim to another serial killer is nonsense and to be honest I haven't seen that theory displayed that much. The discussions concerning Kelly and Stride has to my knowledge centered around them being either probable domestic murders or unrelated prostitute-client murders.
I am not even sure of two murders (Stride, Kelly) would fall into the general definition of "serial killing" but of course that depends on which definition one prefers to quote. But then again, we have the murders of Coles and McKenzie (which I don't believe to be Ripper victims and I don't think they were connected either). And I believe you - like me - also rules out Tabram (so there's another gruesome murder perpetrated in the same area during the same time period).

However, three definitie victims by the same hand (Nichols, Chapman and Eddowes) would in any case support for a fact that a serial killer did exist. But in my view, Jack the Ripper is just as much a phenomenon and a press creation as he is a real killer.

All the best

[Nothing to see]

Are we reading the same thread? I'm not so sure. Only Nicholls, Chapman and Eddowes. Well, you must have definitive proof that only they are linked.

And yes, there are posters who think 2 serial killers at the same time.

PS. I don't blame the Swedes for nothing.

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

Who said two serial killers?
I don't recall anyone has ever suggested that any victim that would fall out of the C5 should have been victim to another serial murderer but in fact that they were unrelated individual killings.

As for the number of victims, I stand by my general opinion, that - according to victimology, circumstances on the crime scene and the killer's modus operandi - we can only be absolutely certain of three victims, Nichols, Chapman and Eddowes. The rest have to remain open for debate.

Let's also remind ourselves that two other serial killers roamed the same area only a few years after the Ripper murders - Neil Cream and Severin Klosowski. And as for other brutal murders in Whitechapel we shouldn't forget Henry Wainewright in 1875 ("The Whitechapel Murderer") as well as other brutal crimes performed in Miller's Court at the turn of the century (the Kitty Ronan murder was indeed brutal beyond the usual). Then add, fort example, the murder of Emma Smith to this equation, as well as some of the torso murders during the same period.
I'd say East End and its relatively limited geographical area certainly had its share during a short time period even without the Ripper.

All the best

[Nothing to see]

Jack killed 5 women. Maybe more, but not less. IMO. It's rubbish to suggest 2 serial killers working Whitechapel at the same time. Do you know what a small area Jack was working in? He wasn't taking the tube or buses. He killed where he lived. He may not have been the sharpest knife in the block but he knew what he wanted to do. At his chosen trade, he had the sharpest knife and he knew how to use it.

[Mitch Rowe]

Heres an official Home Office comment on Jack as a mythical figure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWWSHq0S4EQ&feature=related

I think its very valid to call THE RIPPER a myth even without a credible head count..."Jack" was a pen name and hyped to levels never before seen... around the world.

But for my money someone dark like a mythical Jack killed and mutilated the abdomens of what I believe were 3 consecutive victims....so serial is a little overblown IMHO...but he was a multiple killer.

That Liz Stride is included among his attributed victims with absolutely no evidence physical or circumstantial to link him with that crime...shes likely retroactively added in investigators minds around 2:00am....means they were adding victims based on a spree mentality...an uncontrolled blitz of stabs and cuts on the Unfortunates in the East End.

Jack as we know him to be .....based on the 120 years of literature on the subject and the Canonical ideology in almost every book on him, ...didnt really exist in my opinion.

But a Low man or some Low men made history.

Best regards all.

[Mitch Rowe]

Im looking for the guy that killed AC. I know for a fact he killed MJK. Im looking for a serial killer.

[Debra A]

We know for a fact that the thoughts of everyone at the time, as well as now, were that one man killed all five.

As far as 'the thoughts of everyone at the time' go, I'd just like to add that I've read at least one 1888 newspaper article that explored the idea of Jack the myth as events were happening.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi DP,

We know for a fact that five prostitutes were killed in Whitechapel between August 1888 and November 1888.
We know for a fact that they were killed in very similar ways - with a distinct MO and recognisable signature.

Minor correction - in the interests of sticking to the facts, you understand...

At least one of those 5 murders wasn't conducted in a "very similar" way to the others, and the signature was nowhere near as unique as that seen among the remaining "canonical" victims. Throat cutting stands as a rather banal method of committing murder, and Stride's death was no different in that respect than any number of predecessors and successors who perished in a similar manner.

We know for a fact that the thoughts of everyone at the time, as well as now, were that one man killed all five.

That's neither strictly true, nor a rationale that I'd recommend

[Cap'n Jack]

We look at a small area of London, Whitechapel, or at least I do, and it is this particular area that concerns me.
When I catalogued the number of murderous attacks made on women in that small area in 1887, 1888 and 1889, I was somewhat surprised to note that the arrival of a serial killer in 1888 caused no visible increase in the number of such attacks, and that the number remained static throughout those years.
I equated this to the murder of prostitutes in Ipswich in 2006, and have postulated that the arrival of a serial killer in such a small community would certainly have increased the number of murderous attacks made on women for that year over the preceeding and following year.
I believe this postulation to be correct.
I also believe that in a relatively small community the arrival of a serial killer should and would increase the number of victims of such crimes in the year of his activities... but this didn't happen in Whitechapel in 1888.
I have as yet to reach a conclusion concerning this, but it may indicate that a serial killer was active in Whitechapel in 1887, 1888 and 1889.
Or that we are dealing with 'Jack the Myth'.