Jack the........ Police Officer??

[Errata]

Absolutely. If he was a frequent customer one or more of the residents of Millers Court might see and recognise him.

Although 80% of people are murdered by someone they know. And several serial killers have killed someone they know. Even someone they are related to.

As for being recognized... this is not a tiny little town. And someone nearby committing a crime is generally a good excuse for not paying attention to the people coming in and out of their house. My neighbor is a dealer. I couldn't even a little recognize one of his customers, because I make it a habit not to look. I live in an apartment building with 12 other households, and I can recognize maybe four people. I don't pay attention to them. I don't care what they do as long as they are quiet about it. How many people would really recognize a friend of their neighbor?

Especially give the amount of traffic. Lets say this guy is a regular. He shows up the third Wednesday of every month. And let's say Kelly is active prostitute. So she sees 2 or 3 men every night for three weeks out of the month. Thats like 50 men. And that may be a very conservative number. So throwing a couple of regulars in there is going to get lost in the revolving door of men. Why would her neighbors pay attention to these men? It's more like "oh there goes Mary with some dude". It's not like she introduces them around... And some of her neighbors are plying the same trade, so they have a bunch of men coming in and out. It's not really a situation that lends itself to keeping track. Assuming someone even wants to.

[Wickerman]

I find it amazing that whenever discussions come up on who killed Kelly that Blotchy is never mentioned. NEVER. Why people? He is the last credible suspect seen with Kelly .....

Hi Abby.
Ok, lets list all the credible points associated with Blotchy.
Who was able to substantiate Cox's story?
Who saw Blotchy in any pub?
Who else saw Blotchy with Kelly anywhere?
Why no pot found in Kelly's room?

Have we found anything credible yet?

...and discounting hutches dubious story,

But that is bias talking. The story is only dubious if the police say so. As they actually met him and saw first hand his emotions and his demeanor, surely they know better than anyone in our time who only have the written word to go by?

....she is never seen alive again after being seen by a credible witness entering her home with him, never seen out later that night,...

But why would you promote something that is not true?

...and blotchy is never seen leaving.

Agreed, but did he even exist?

He never comes forward and is never found.

More evidence of the same...

He matches the description given by another credible witness, Lawende , of a rather fair haired man and dressed the same.

I think if you compared the two descriptions side by side, you'd have a lot of explaining to do

I think it rather shortsighted that he is so often left out of the equation and The MK/blotchy sighting can tell us something.

Do you really think a man carrying his own beer mug to a date is contemplating murder & mutilation?

Oh and he's the last person seen with her alive.

Not true Abby.

[Bridewell]

How about letting a punter come to her room in daylight?
Regards Richard.

I'm surprised how few people give credence to that possibility.

[Bridewell]

Hi Caz.
Some good points you raise.

I'm inclined to agree with the above quote, that the meeting between Kelly and her killer was chance, and he was not a frequent customer.

Absolutely. If he was a frequent customer one or more of the residents of Millers Court might see and recognise him.

[Wickerman]

The very fact that this murder took place where it did, and remains unsolved, leads me to doubt that Kelly's killer had any prior connection with her or with Miller's Court. I certainly don't think a copper, on his own patch or away from it, would have risked an indoor killing like that if Kelly knew him by name or by sight.

Hi Caz.
Some good points you raise.

I'm inclined to agree with the above quote, that the meeting between Kelly and her killer was chance, and he was not a frequent customer.

[Fisherman]

Hi again Abby,

I'm not particularly fussed whether Stride and/or Kelly were soliciting or not when they encountered their killer. But it was likely to have been something about where the victims were and what they were doing at the time that made them appear easy prey. So even if they had not been planning to solicit, and were hoping to find a new partner, we know that their killer (ripper or not) had a very different agenda, which required the victim to play ball to a certain extent. If Kelly's killer had shown her a decent amount of money, for instance, I'm not sure she would have refused on the basis that he was a stranger who probably just wanted sex and was never going to be her Mr. Right.

Love,

Caz
X

Better, Caz - much, much better!

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Yep, that's exactly what I meant, Abby. Thanks.

I see no reason why Blotchy could not still have been in the room when Hutch said he arrived around 2am. After all, we were talking about Blotchy in terms of being a potential ripper.

Keep up, Fishy!

Love,

Caz
X

I´m trying, Caz, I´m trying.

... but in this case, I find your suggestion overcomplicated, to say the least.

Let´s try and untangle things here!

You suggest that Hutch was there at the time he himself said he was, around 2.00-3.45, right?

And he did not know who was in the room with Kelly?

Then he invented Astrakhan man to explain why he was there, is that right? To take the heat off himself, as you say.

But how would that take the heat off? Why would it be less conspicious to admit to having watched her house with Astrakhan man inside than with anybody else? Or, for that matter, with nobody else in there?

Any one of these three suggestions have Hutchinson standing outside her room for 45 minutes in the middle of the night. Any of them would be an unconfirmable story, and a potential lie. The police would know this - and they realized the implications too, since Hutch was interrogated.

If he just stood there, hoping for Kelly to come out, why not just say so? It would not be possible to tie him to the murder on basis of that. She was a prostitute, and prostitutes often venture out at nighttime. The scenario would be a realistic one.

Once he involved a man with rich attire and spats, he offered himself up to suspicion. And if he had NOT seen that man, he risked getting tangled up in his own lies, and that could spell disaster. What if Blotchy came forward and said "Hey, I was there all night, and I never say any fancy dress guy".

Is overcomplicating, I´m afraid. Not impossible, but not very credible either.

The best,
Fisherman

[caz]

Hi again Abby,

I'm not particularly fussed whether Stride and/or Kelly were soliciting or not when they encountered their killer. But it was likely to have been something about where the victims were and what they were doing at the time that made them appear easy prey. So even if they had not been planning to solicit, and were hoping to find a new partner, we know that their killer (ripper or not) had a very different agenda, which required the victim to play ball to a certain extent. If Kelly's killer had shown her a decent amount of money, for instance, I'm not sure she would have refused on the basis that he was a stranger who probably just wanted sex and was never going to be her Mr. Right.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Hi fish
I Beleive she is talking about 2:00 on time frame, not the earlier time frame when Mary was first spotted with Blotchy.

Yep, that's exactly what I meant, Abby. Thanks.

I see no reason why Blotchy could not still have been in the room when Hutch said he arrived around 2am. After all, we were talking about Blotchy in terms of being a potential ripper.

Keep up, Fishy!

Love,

Caz
X

[Abby Normal]

The events were two and a half hours apart, roughly. And Hutchinson said that he was returning from Romford at the stage when he arrived in Dorset Street.
Why would he do that, if he felt a need to explain what he was doing outside Kelly´s place at 11.45-12.30? If he had been seen then, his story about arriving back AFTER that stage would surely point away from his having been in place 11.45-12.30.

Or are you saying that he may have entertained a hope that the ones who saw him at 11.45-12.30 would have accepted that it was actually 2.00-2.45 as they observed him?

It adds up very poorly, does it not? Or am I missing something here, Caz?

The best,
Fisherman

Hi fish
I Beleive she is talking about 2:00 on time frame, not the earlier time frame when Mary was first spotted with Blotchy.

[Abby Normal]

Oh I agree with you, Abby. I consider Blotchy to be a person of very great interest, who needs to be eliminated before anyone who could not reasonably have been the same man is put in the frame.

Where I would disagree is that he doesn't need to have met Kelly before that night (nor even been a 'local joe', although I concede it's as likely as not).

Prostitutes like Kelly survived on their wits and their ability to engage with complete strangers and make them feel "comfortable". Blotchy had beer - a big plus - and had most likely shown her the price of admission and fed her before she let him into her room and her bed. She owed back rent, so he probably struck her as a godsend, before he struck her as the ripper.

My hunch is that Hutch may have turned up at her door while she was entertaining Blotchy, waited for nearly an hour then gave up, without ever seeing him. When he heard that she had been murdered he realised he could have been seen by all sorts during his vigil, putting him in a dangerous position. So when the inquest was over he decided to come forward with his story of seeing Kelly and the man together (imagining what the ripper might look like) and following them back, to take the heat off what he was doing loitering near the crime scene himself.

Love,

Caz
X

Hi caz
Thanks. I agree with everything you say, especially about hutch, except about MK probably meeting blotchy for the first time that night, although its possible of course.

I'm always seeing arguments on here about whether certain women were solicitating or not. It's always too black and white for my liking. Like they only have two modes-either actively prostituting or not. Like there is no other behavior when dealing with their relationships with men. We know they had boyfriends, male friends, relationships etc., why must when we talk about what they were doing out is always that they were either solicitating or nothing.

How about perhaps, they are out looking for a new boyfriend/someone who can support them so they don't have to whore themselves all the time? I have MK and stride specifically in mind as they had both recently broken up with there men and Beleive they were first and foremost probably looking for a new man. If stride was out solicitating she probably would have ended up mutilated like the others and not just a cut throat.

Mary Kelly's behavior that night to me seems like she knew him at least casually. On the course of their outings at the pubs and the streets these women like Mary must have met, interacted with many different men and not just as customer/client. I think blotchy was probably one of these men. She certainly was acting like she knew him and was happy and content to be with him for an extended period of time. Unfortunately for Mary, he was probably the ripper IMHO.

[Fisherman]

My hunch is that Hutch may have turned up at her door while she was entertaining Blotchy, waited for nearly an hour then gave up, without ever seeing him. When he heard that she had been murdered he realised he could have been seen by all sorts during his vigil, putting him in a dangerous position. So when the inquest was over he decided to come forward with his story of seeing Kelly and the man together (imagining what the ripper might look like) and following them back, to take the heat off what he was doing loitering near the crime scene himself.
Love,

Caz
X

The events were two and a half hours apart, roughly. And Hutchinson said that he was returning from Romford at the stage when he arrived in Dorset Street.
Why would he do that, if he felt a need to explain what he was doing outside Kelly´s place at 11.45-12.30? If he had been seen then, his story about arriving back AFTER that stage would surely point away from his having been in place 11.45-12.30.

Or are you saying that he may have entertained a hope that the ones who saw him at 11.45-12.30 would have accepted that it was actually 2.00-2.45 as they observed him?

It adds up very poorly, does it not? Or am I missing something here, Caz?

The best,
Fisherman

[Nick Spring]

I agree Botchy man is of great interest and not necessarily local or have met here before.

But by considering him as a suspect, his description is so different from other sightings with other victims.

Best

Nick

[caz]

Oh I agree with you, Abby. I consider Blotchy to be a person of very great interest, who needs to be eliminated before anyone who could not reasonably have been the same man is put in the frame.

Where I would disagree is that he doesn't need to have met Kelly before that night (nor even been a 'local joe', although I concede it's as likely as not).

Prostitutes like Kelly survived on their wits and their ability to engage with complete strangers and make them feel "comfortable". Blotchy had beer - a big plus - and had most likely shown her the price of admission and fed her before she let him into her room and her bed. She owed back rent, so he probably struck her as a godsend, before he struck her as the ripper.

My hunch is that Hutch may have turned up at her door while she was entertaining Blotchy, waited for nearly an hour then gave up, without ever seeing him. When he heard that she had been murdered he realised he could have been seen by all sorts during his vigil, putting him in a dangerous position. So when the inquest was over he decided to come forward with his story of seeing Kelly and the man together (imagining what the ripper might look like) and following them back, to take the heat off what he was doing loitering near the crime scene himself.

Love,

Caz
X

[Abby Normal]

I find it amazing that whenever discussions come up on who killed Kelly that Blotchy is never mentioned. NEVER. Why people? He is the last credible suspect seen with Kelly and discounting hutches dubious story, she is never seen alive again after being seen by a credible witness entering her home with him, never seen out later that night, and blotchy is never seen leaving.

He never comes forward and is never found. He matches the description given by another credible witness, Lawende , of a rather fair haired man and dressed the same.

I think it rather shortsighted that he is so often left out of the equation and The MK/blotchy sighting can tell us something.

Would MK be so quick to bring a total stranger home so soon after the breakup with Barnett and the ripper scare at it height? I doubt it and ther actions together suggest they knew each other at least casually (he need not be a former customer) and that she felt comfortable with him, enough to spend the night-singing to him, pail of beer, bad night, warm fire, intoxicated, and certainly not going out again to find someone else. Perhaps she had seen him around befor, flirted with him and was thinking he may be her next boyfriend/supporter.

I think people need to seriously consider him as her killer and JtR. Here we have the local joe, unknown, never comes forward and never found, matches the profile of serial killer Everyman, similar in description to possibly the most credible witness Lawendes suspect, frequents prostitutes, pub goer and has the wherewithal to get a young attractive woman to bring him home. Oh and he's the last person seen with her alive.