Mr Blotchy

[Chava]

It's the singing that's throwing me off regarding Blotchy. Up until now, Jack is the blitzkrieg killer, doesn't care who is within earshot of his murders, and doesn't seem to have any real sexual interest in his victims. Mary should have been murdered five minutes after closing her door; and if Blotchy's Jack, he should have been long gone by 1am. Instead I'm left to consider the possibility that he went back to her cold apartment, drank his beer by candlelight, and listened to her sing for the better part of an hour.

But the thing is we don’t know that he’s a ‘Blitzkrieg killer’. At the point he kills, yes. But we don’t know how much time he spends with his victims before that, and that time could vary. If Kelly was his chosen victim he would wait until she was vulnerable. And by the way I put no faith whatsoever in Hutch.

Years ago I started a thread that ran and ran about the piece of apron in Eddowes. I said we’d ignored it far too long and it was the only physical evidence in the case that was found away from the victim. Now I’m going to point out that Mr Blotchy is the only person in the case who matches descriptions given in multiple events. We look for reasons to exonerate him because we know Kelly was still alive for a while after going in with him. We ignore the fact that he knew he had been seen by Cox and therefore let his victim sing her head off to prove she was alive with him.

[Varqm]

Hi Abby.

In my view, Astrachan is not a suspect because Mrs Kennedy saw Kelly outside the Britannia about 3:00 am.
Kelly was murdered after 3 o'clock, around the time of the cry of "murder".

Mr's Kennedy did not exist unless Lewis's shadow talked.

[Jon Guy]

And I thought one of the policeman (?? can't remember name ??) who gave a description many years later about a suspect who walked past him just before he found the buddy had unusual eyes. Not sure if others know who that was ?

Sgt Steven White

[Harry D]

Fair point Harry, but the whole JTR case is mired in conflicting testimonies, dubious witnesses etc..

Exactly my point.

Although, in this case, I don't accept that Mary Kelly was killed in the daylight hours. It doesn't follow the killer's previous behaviour, and although you could argue that he replaced the cover of night with the cover of killing indoors, there was a substantially greater risk of interruption and being seen leaving the murder site at that time of day.

[Craig H]

When the man came in, the expression of his eyes caught her attention, his look was so startling and terrifying... When Taylor came alongside him the man glanced at him, and Taylor says, "His eyes were as wild as a hawk's." The man walked holding his coat together at the top.

The phrase that this man's look was terrifying and "eyes as wild as a hawk" is familiar. Didn't Gardner and Best say the person they met at the pub had strange eyes ? And I thought one of the policeman (?? can't remember name ??) who gave a description many years later about a suspect who walked past him just before he found the buddy had unusual eyes. Not sure if others know who that was ?

Craig

[Craig H]

Hi Robert

The other option is that the victims knew Jack. This explains why he was listening to Mary sing for an hour. Previous posts have shown how all the victims lived close to each other.

I also think the William Marshall saw Jack with Stride even though it was an hour before she died. The Marshall description is similar to PC Smith (Stride) and Lawende (Eddowes). Others have suggested Stride wasn't soliciting that night.
I also think Jack gave the victims a gift (the bonnet, rings, cigarette case) as a way to charm them.

Craig

[Robert St Devil]

I've been reading the Star's account, Craig. I don't know which party used the term "shabby genteel" first in this case, but it seems like the Star had it out there on September 8th. It was attributed to Taylor. Considering the Star's large circulation, it's a wonder if they unwittingly influenced that descriptive onto the populace.

It's the singing that's throwing me off regarding Blotchy. Up until now, Jack is the blitzkrieg killer, doesn't care who is within earshot of his murders, and doesn't seem to have any real sexual interest in his victims. Mary should have been murdered five minutes after closing her door; and if Blotchy's Jack, he should have been long gone by 1am. Instead I'm left to consider the possibility that he went back to her cold apartment, drank his beer by candlelight, and listened to her sing for the better part of an hour.

[Wickerman]

The earliest she could have been killed was around one am.

Well, thats what Dr Bond believed before the inquest, but after 1:00 am, according to Prater there was no light in her room, and all was quiet, then the room was more than likely empty.
Which Bond would not have been aware of.

[DJA]

This is an excerpt from the Star, 10 Sep. By carrotty, could she mean 'a long, ginger-coloured moustache'?

Taylor went out a moment later without any particular intention of FOLLOWING THE MAN, whom Mrs. Chappell pointed out to him. The man was going towards Bishopsgate, however, and, as this was Taylor's direction, he increased his pace.
"It was all I could do to overtake him," he said yesterday, "and I am not a bad walker myself. The man walked very rapidly, however, with a peculiar springy walk that I would recognise again. He carried himself very erect, like a horse soldier. He had a ginger-colored moustache, longer than mine and curling a little at the ends. His shoulders were very square and his neck rather long. He was neither stout nor thin, and seemed between 30 and 40 years old. His face was medium in stoutness. There were faint hollows under the cheekbones. One thing that impressed me was that the man SEEMED BEWILDERED. He crossed Brushfield-street three times in going from the Prince Albert to the next street, which was Bishopsgate. He clearly did not know where he was going. When he reached Bishopsgate, he stood at the corner and looked up and down the street undecided. Then he made up his mind and started across Brushfield-street rapidly, and kept on down Bishopsgate towards Liverpool-street. I followed as far as Half-Moon street, where my work was, and watched him for some time from the corner, but he kept straight on [my emphasis]

http://mapco.net/bowles1775/bowles07_02.htm

Green Dragon pub,44 Half Moon Street was closed/taken over after 1869.

[Wickerman]

Nah. Three police name him and he’s the only suspect with any kind of direct evidence... the possible positive ID. Age would be hard to determine, he could have looked older than his years.

Named, after how many years?, yet no mention of him at the time of the murders. In fact, quite the opposite. Anderson admitted they had no suspects.

Ah yes, that "trustworthy", yet illusive "positive" I.D.
The where, when & by what means never clearly established.
As to the question of estimating age, all the victims were thought to look younger than they actually were.
By that rule, for a 23 year old killer, these witnesses should be describing a teenager, not a middle-aged suspect.

I guess you can tell I'm not a fan of the Kozminski theory

[Wickerman]

So Barnett, hutch, blotchy, Aman and misterX ?!? Wow busy girl.

Well, Barnett & Hutch didn't get a piece that night. Neither had any money.

But seriously, why couldn’t she had fish and chips with blotchy?

She could, but Cox didn't mention seeing or smelling, fish & chips. Neither did Hutch, so it must have been client No. 3?, I guess.

[Wickerman]

Why wast Maurice Lewis called though???

Only Macdonald knows the answer to that.

[Craig H]

This is an excerpt from the Star, 10 Sep. By carrotty, could she mean 'a long, ginger-coloured moustache'?

Taylor went out a moment later without any particular intention of FOLLOWING THE MAN, whom Mrs. Chappell pointed out to him. The man was going towards Bishopsgate, however, and, as this was Taylor's direction, he increased his pace.
"It was all I could do to overtake him," he said yesterday, "and I am not a bad walker myself. The man walked very rapidly, however, with a peculiar springy walk that I would recognise again. He carried himself very erect, like a horse soldier. He had a ginger-colored moustache, longer than mine and curling a little at the ends. His shoulders were very square and his neck rather long. He was neither stout nor thin, and seemed between 30 and 40 years old. His face was medium in stoutness. There were faint hollows under the cheekbones. One thing that impressed me was that the man SEEMED BEWILDERED. He crossed Brushfield-street three times in going from the Prince Albert to the next street, which was Bishopsgate. He clearly did not know where he was going. When he reached Bishopsgate, he stood at the corner and looked up and down the street undecided. Then he made up his mind and started across Brushfield-street rapidly, and kept on down Bishopsgate towards Liverpool-street. I followed as far as Half-Moon street, where my work was, and watched him for some time from the corner, but he kept straight on [my emphasis]

Interesting to read. By crossing Brushfield St several times, was he bewildered or suspecting that he was being followed and checking ??

The "shabby genteel" and "pepper and salt trousers" are similar to previous witness descriptions (Elizabeth Long), Joseph Lawende, PC Smith. Lawende and Smith also said he was fair complexion.

Also, if it was Jack, was he heading towards home ? There is a view he lived in that area.

Craig

[c.d.]

Cd
Unless you don’t think any of the witnesses saw the ripper, then the ripper was seen well by many people before he went on to kill.

No, a lie by hutch isn’t as simple as that. It would put him as suspect number one by any detective worth his salt.

Hello Abby,

Assuming for the sake of argument that Hutch was telling the truth he literally peered in the face of the Astrakhan man as opposed to fleeting and distant sightings of the other witnesses. I'm eliminating B.S. man as seen by Schwartz because I don't think he was Stride's killer.

I agree with your no detective worth his salt assessment and I don't think the detectives (including Abberline) who questioned Hutch were fools. Since they appeared to give him a pass they either didn't think he was lying or else they concluded that yes, he might have lied for some reason but that regardless he was not involved in Kelly's murder.

c.d.

[Robert St Devil]

I'm not sure that's the place he went, Jerry. This excerpt mentions him going towards Bishopsgate and then as far as Dirty Dick's, which (today at least) is no. 202 Bishopsgate.

"That friend is Mrs. Mary Chappell, who lives at 28 Stewart street, near by. Her story corroborates Mrs. Fiddymont's, and is more particular. When the man came in, the expression of his eyes caught her attention, his look was so startling and terrifying. It frightened Mrs. Fiddymont so that she requested Mrs. Chappell to stay. He wore a light blue check shirt, which was torn badly, into rags in fact, on the right shoulder. There was a narrow streak of blood under his right ear, parallel with the edge of his shirt. There was also dried blood between the fingers of his hand. When he went out she slipped out by the other door, and watched him as he went towards Bishopsgate street. She called Joseph Taylor's attention to him, and Taylor followed him. Joseph Taylor is a builder, of 22 Stewart street. He states that as soon as his attention was attracted to the man he followed him. He walked rapidly, and came alongside the man, but did not speak to him. The man was rather thin, about 5ft 8in high, and apparently between 40 and 50 years of age. He had a shabby genteel look, pepper and salt trousers, which fitted badly and dark coat. When Taylor came alongside him the man glanced at him, and Taylor says, "His eyes were as wild as a hawk's." The man walked holding his coat together at the top. He had a nervous and frightened way about him. He had a light moustache and short sandy hair. Taylor ceased to follow him, but watched him as far as "Dirty Dick's" in Halfmoon street, where he became lost to view"

Taylor's description doesn't sound much like either Blotchy or Cleary.

This is an excerpt from the Star, 10 Sep. By carrotty, could she mean 'a long, ginger-coloured moustache'?

Taylor went out a moment later without any particular intention of FOLLOWING THE MAN, whom Mrs. Chappell pointed out to him. The man was going towards Bishopsgate, however, and, as this was Taylor's direction, he increased his pace.
"It was all I could do to overtake him," he said yesterday, "and I am not a bad walker myself. The man walked very rapidly, however, with a peculiar springy walk that I would recognise again. He carried himself very erect, like a horse soldier. He had a ginger-colored moustache, longer than mine and curling a little at the ends. His shoulders were very square and his neck rather long. He was neither stout nor thin, and seemed between 30 and 40 years old. His face was medium in stoutness. There were faint hollows under the cheekbones. One thing that impressed me was that the man SEEMED BEWILDERED. He crossed Brushfield-street three times in going from the Prince Albert to the next street, which was Bishopsgate. He clearly did not know where he was going. When he reached Bishopsgate, he stood at the corner and looked up and down the street undecided. Then he made up his mind and started across Brushfield-street rapidly, and kept on down Bishopsgate towards Liverpool-street. I followed as far as Half-Moon street, where my work was, and watched him for some time from the corner, but he kept straight on [my emphasis]