Mr Blotchy

[DJA]

They sold them in bars for take out beer

Just the thing for a hearty ale.

https://wine-searcher1.freetls.fastly.net/images/labels/36/56/baltimore-washington-beer-works-tell-tale-hearty-ale-beer-maryland-usa-10463656.jpg

[RockySullivan]

the reason I'd like to see the story of the coffee stall holder of the man who predicted the double event is because it sounds like John Arnold with the pinchin torso and the man in the whitehall case. Does anyone have any more info?

[Sam Flynn]

Or are you saying the journalist made it up?

Not necessarily. Kennedy might have been making it up, or there was confusion on the part of the papers. It's vaguely possible that Lewis used a pseudonym or genuinely went by another name. But Lewis and Kennedy as two individuals who shared exactly the same experiences? No way on earth.

[Wickerman]

Not necessarily. Kennedy might have been making it up, or there was confusion on the part of the papers. It's vaguely possible that Lewis used a pseudonym or genuinely went by another name. But Lewis and Kennedy as two individuals who shared exactly the same experiences? No way on earth.

But Gareth, you've already seen that their stories are not "exactly the same".
Asserting a point which is not true only helps to perpetuate the myth.

[Abby Normal]

*I should be he

Freudian slip?

[Fisherman]

But Gareth, you've already seen that their stories are not "exactly the same".
Asserting a point which is not true only helps to perpetuate the myth.

He´s interesting in that way, Gareth - Kennedy and Lewis experienced the "exact same" things, but the torso killer and the Ripper were not even remotely alike in what they did. And they did it for totally different reasons, even!

Dear me...

[Wickerman]

He´s interesting in that way, Gareth - Kennedy and Lewis experienced the "exact same" things, but the torso killer and the Ripper were not even remotely alike in what they did. And they did it for totally different reasons, even!

Dear me...

Hi Christer.

Earlier researchers like Sugden may not have had the extent of press sources we have today. What they did was all manual look-ups, very time consuming.
Today, with computer searching we find several accounts from a range of newspapers, so our view is broader.

We can see the Evening News first broke the story by interviewing the Gallagher family at No.2 Millers Court. So he probably misheard the name (Gallagher/Keyler) but he is clearly talking about the same family as they say their married daughter, a Mrs Kennedy, came home at a late hour, etc.
(Sarah Lewis didn't live in the court, and she wasn't married anyway).

The Evening News include a paragraph from the Press Association interview with the same woman, so two different journalists interviewed both the woman and her family. Then there's the account by the Times which mentions that Kennedy was interviewed by the police - so we have three sources all consistent with each other.

Given the fact there are very noticeable differences between the stories of Lewis & Kennedy, when we also take into account the three various press sources - the suggestion that Kennedy was really Lewis, or that Kennedy didn't exist is ludicrous.
You couldn't ask for better indications of two women being involved.

[Wickerman]

Seeing as this is a Blotchy thread.
Why would a man looking like Blotchy, be said to be helping the police?

"The police state that the man who aroused the suspicion of Mr. Galloway by frequently crossing and recrossing the road, is a respectable citizen, and that he was, as a matter of fact, acting in concert with them in his "mysterious movements."
Evening News, Nov. 17.

The original account on the 16th was probably from an agency, because it appeared in both the Evening News & the Star, on the same evening.

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/evening_news/18881116.html?printer=true

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/star/s881116.html

The conclusion, that he was "working in concert" with police, seems odd, was he acting like the suspect in order to jolt peoples memory, or was this a brush-off to the reporter by police, to prevent them looking into it?
And, if this suspect "look-alike" was working with police, why was this pseudo drama being acted out in the Whitechapel Road?

Had the police received tips that a man fitting that description was known to frequent that area?

[jerryd]

Seeing as this is a Blotchy thread.
Why would a man looking like Blotchy, be said to be helping the police?

"The police state that the man who aroused the suspicion of Mr. Galloway by frequently crossing and recrossing the road, is a respectable citizen, and that he was, as a matter of fact, acting in concert with them in his "mysterious movements."
Evening News, Nov. 17.

The original account on the 16th was probably from an agency, because it appeared in both the Evening News & the Star, on the same evening.

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/evening_news/18881116.html?printer=true

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/star/s881116.html

The conclusion, that he was "working in concert" with police, seems odd, was he acting like the suspect in order to jolt peoples memory, or was this a brush-off to the reporter by police, to prevent them looking into it?
And, if this suspect "look-alike" was working with police, why was this pseudo drama being acted out in the Whitechapel Road?

Had the police received tips that a man fitting that description was known to frequent that area?

Could he have been a plain clothes cop or a member of the Vigilance Committee? I've read several reports that the police didn't know who was who sometimes because of the transferered in cops from other stations and the undercover Vigilantes.

[Michael W Richards]

But Gareth, you've already seen that their stories are not "exactly the same".
Asserting a point which is not true only helps to perpetuate the myth.

The fact that they are not the same is due to different reporters writing about the incident. I second Sam here, its sad to see someone with the capacity to sort things out sticking to a position that is so obviously incorrect.

[Michael W Richards]

"Some confirmation is added to this supposition by the evidence of another witness, Sarah Lewis, who lived a short distance off, but had had some falling out at home, and went to stay the night with a friend in Miller's-court, where she sat and dozed in a chair. She woke up about 3.30 by Spitalfields church clock, and a little before four o'clock-agreeing in this with the other witness-she also heard one cry of "Murder!"

"Mrs. Kennedy went on her way, and nothing unusual occurred until about half an hour later. She states that she did not retire to rest immediately after she reached her parents' abode, but sat up, and between half-past three and a quarter to four she heard a cry of "Murder!" in a woman's voice proceed from the direction in which Mary Kelly's room was situated. As the cry was not repeated she took no further notice of the circumstance until the morning, when she found the police in possession of the place, preventing all egress to the occupants of the small houses in this court."

So thats different people, in the same courtyard, with the same account, and the same timing? That we even debate this point is once again proof positive that people will believe what they want despite the contrary evidence.

[Wickerman]

No Michael, actually you are merely cherry-picking.
People who had no bed slept on chairs, that was normal. More comfortable than the floor.

These are the questions you need to explain...

- Why you think Lewis (if Kennedy) would say she was at the Britannia "about 3:00", but tell the court (as Lewis) that she was at the Keylers at 2:30", is a problem.

- Why you think Lewis (if Kennedy) would say she was with Kelly outside the Britannia, but tell the court (as Lewis) that she didn't know Kelly, is another problem.

- Why you think Lewis (if Kennedy) would say there was one man, but two women, outside the Britannia, yet tell the court (as Lewis) there was one man & one woman outside the Britannia, is another problem.

- Why you think Lewis (if Kennedy) would omit mentioning the loiterer, and the second couple in Dorset St. as she entered the court, yet tell the court (as Lewis) she did see this loiterer watching another man & woman enter the court, is yet again, another problem.

Plus, the Family at Millers court describing their married daughter as "Mrs Kennedy".

Confront all the issues Michael, not just the one's you find easy to dismiss.

[Wickerman]

Could he have been a plain clothes cop or a member of the Vigilance Committee? I've read several reports that the police didn't know who was who sometimes because of the transferered in cops from other stations and the undercover Vigilantes.

Yes, but if he was helping police, in what way was this helping police?

[jerryd]

Yes, but if he was helping police, in what way was this helping police?

Not sure Jon. I just interpret "working in concert with the police" as he was doing the same thing they were. i.e scouring the area for potential suspects.

[Wickerman]

The original account on the 16th was probably from an agency, because it appeared in both the Evening News & the Star, on the same evening.

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/evening_news/18881116.html?printer=true

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/star/s881116.html

In addition to the above, it appears this story first saw the light of day in the morning press.
The Aberdeen Press of Nov. 16th, give the source as the Central News.
And following what we read in the previous two links above, the Aberdeen Press include a further paragraph from the Central News report: