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John Pizer and his Constable alibi?

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  • John Pizer and his Constable alibi?

    Is it known, whether the name of the Constable John Pizer spoke to on the night of the Nichols murder was ever ascertained?

  • #2
    Originally posted by The Station Cat View Post
    Is it known, whether the name of the Constable John Pizer spoke to on the night of the Nichols murder was ever ascertained?
    I think so. Of the top of my head they remembered the night because they were watching a coal fire when he spoke to them?

    If I am wrong, I will be really interested to find out, as it is one of those things I am sure I read somewhere and have taken for granted since.
    There Will Be Trouble! http://www.amazon.co.uk/A-Little-Tro...s=T.+E.+Hodden

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    • #3
      Originally posted by TomTomKent View Post
      I think so. Of the top of my head they remembered the night because they were watching a coal fire when he spoke to them?

      If I am wrong, I will be really interested to find out, as it is one of those things I am sure I read somewhere and have taken for granted since.

      That's what I thought as well, but I can't find any reference to this mysterious Constable ever being named? Which beggars the question, was this something else made up by the press which has passed into Ripper Lore as fact?

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      • #4
        well thicke was the one who knew him and arrested him as leather apron, but don't think he was the one who alibied him.

        ive always been a little suspicious about that alibi though. it was for the Nichols murder correct?

        didn't he also have an alibi for the chapman murder?

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        • #5
          Here's Piser's relevant evidence, from the Telegraph;

          "Where were you before two o'clock on Friday morning? - At eleven p.m. on Thursday I had my supper at the Round House.
          [Coroner] Did you go out? - Yes, as far as the Seven Sisters-road, and then returned towards Highgate way, down the Holloway-road. Turning, I saw the reflection of a fire. Coming as far as the church in the Holloway-road I saw two constables and the lodging-housekeeper talking together. There might have been one or two constables, I cannot say which. I asked a constable where the fire was, and he said it was a long way off. I asked him where he thought it was, and he replied: "Down by the Albert Docks." It was then about half-past one, to the best of my recollection. I went as far as Highbury Railway Station on the same side of the way, returned, and then went into the lodging house."

          At the end of his evidence, the coroner says;
          "It is only fair to say that the witness's statements can be corroborated"

          Presumably that includes the PC, but he isn't specifically mentioned. Being in Holloway Road, would that mean he was from G division?
          Last edited by Joshua Rogan; 11-08-2017, 07:47 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
            Here's Piser's relevant evidence, from the Telegraph;

            "Where were you before two o'clock on Friday morning? - At eleven p.m. on Thursday I had my supper at the Round House.
            [Coroner] Did you go out? - Yes, as far as the Seven Sisters-road, and then returned towards Highgate way, down the Holloway-road. Turning, I saw the reflection of a fire. Coming as far as the church in the Holloway-road I saw two constables and the lodging-housekeeper talking together. There might have been one or two constables, I cannot say which. I asked a constable where the fire was, and he said it was a long way off. I asked him where he thought it was, and he replied: "Down by the Albert Docks." It was then about half-past one, to the best of my recollection. I went as far as Highbury Railway Station on the same side of the way, returned, and then went into the lodging house."

            At the end of his evidence, the coroner says;
            "It is only fair to say that the witness's statements can be corroborated"

            Presumably that includes the PC, but he isn't specifically mentioned. Being in Holloway Road, would that mean he was from G division?
            Thanks JR
            I know that in sugdens book he covers this quite extensively but I lent it out and cant check, but I believe sugden names the constable and that sugden is very confident that the alibi was strong and that pizer couldn't have been the ripper.

            I don't know though. I have never totally illiminated him and still think the alibi is suspicious and that it cant rule him out for pollys murder.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
              Thanks JR
              I know that in sugdens book he covers this quite extensively but I lent it out and cant check, but I believe sugden names the constable and that sugden is very confident that the alibi was strong and that pizer couldn't have been the ripper.

              I don't know though. I have never totally illiminated him and still think the alibi is suspicious and that it cant rule him out for pollys murder.
              My copy is handy....but I can't find anything. Sugden does mention the incident but no names as far as I can see.
              It was really the lodging house keeper that supplied the alibi though; the PC chat happened early enough for Piser to have made his way to Buck's Row, but he was apparently in bed by then. He had to pay for his bed a second time as it had already been let out again, so that may have made it stick in the deputy's memory.

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              • #8
                I don't know the name of the PC but just for interest during research I found that the Round House, also given as 'Crossmans' in some newspapers but crucially Crossingham's in at least one paper. It was in fact a lodging house in Holloway Rd, registered keeper Albert Crossingham, brother of William Crossingham.
                ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

                I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
                  Here's Piser's relevant evidence, from the Telegraph;

                  "Where were you before two o'clock on Friday morning? - At eleven p.m. on Thursday I had my supper at the Round House.
                  [Coroner] Did you go out? - Yes, as far as the Seven Sisters-road, and then returned towards Highgate way, down the Holloway-road. Turning, I saw the reflection of a fire. Coming as far as the church in the Holloway-road I saw two constables and the lodging-housekeeper talking together. There might have been one or two constables, I cannot say which. I asked a constable where the fire was, and he said it was a long way off. I asked him where he thought it was, and he replied: "Down by the Albert Docks." It was then about half-past one, to the best of my recollection. I went as far as Highbury Railway Station on the same side of the way, returned, and then went into the lodging house."

                  At the end of his evidence, the coroner says;
                  "It is only fair to say that the witness's statements can be corroborated"

                  Presumably that includes the PC, but he isn't specifically mentioned. Being in Holloway Road, would that mean he was from G division?

                  Interesting, so the Constable alibi would appear to have come from the Coroner's hearing, assuming the Telegraph reporter is documenting it accurately. Curious how this was just taken as read and that the Constable(s) aren't named and thus Pizer's evidence collaborated, lets face it he wouldn't be the first witness to have lied on the stand.........

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by The Station Cat View Post
                    Interesting, so the Constable alibi would appear to have come from the Coroner's hearing, assuming the Telegraph reporter is documenting it accurately. Curious how this was just taken as read and that the Constable(s) aren't named and thus Pizer's evidence collaborated, lets face it he wouldn't be the first witness to have lied on the stand.........
                    its always seemed to be a rather flimsy alibi to me.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                      its always seemed to be a rather flimsy alibi to me.

                      I agree, but surely there must be more substance to it than Pizer's word?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by The Station Cat View Post
                        I agree, but surely there must be more substance to it than Pizer's word?
                        I think there probably is. Maybe with Thicke knowing him so well, perhaps the corroboration between the PC and the lodging house keeper was established or already known.

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                        • #13
                          At that particular moment in time when Pizer gave his alibi, he was probably the number 1 police suspect. I am sure the police would have only been too happy to discredit it, [ more evidence of guilt, if it was proved to be false ], but it seems very likely that it was accepted. So unless over evidence comes to light, we must be quite confident that Pizer was telling the truth.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
                            It was really the lodging house keeper that supplied the alibi though;
                            Albert Crossingham?
                            ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

                            I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Debra A View Post
                              Albert Crossingham?
                              Could be Debs, but he's not mentiined by name. And mostly the registered keepers didn't seem to live onsite, at least not overnight. So probably Piser was referring to a deputy or night watchman.
                              Still, good find!

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