Ripper Facts

[Columbo]

I thought it could be useful to identify what are the actual facts we know about the Ripper, as opposed to speculation.

While it could be argued that most of what we know about JTR is speculation, there are some aspects that are more factual than others.

The following is my start ...

Witness description. The consistent picture from more reliable witnesses is he was aged 25 - 35 y.o., about 5'7" tall, was English, appeared well educated, had a moustache and was stocky built.

Time of killings. He only killed on weekends in the early morning.

Had skill in cutting and anatomy. While it is contentious whether he was a doctor or butcher, one can say he was comfortable using a knife to cut flesh.

He was able to move around without being detected.

Dates are alingned with turmoil at Scotland Yard. The first Nicholls killing occurred when Monro resigned due to conflict with Warren. The final Kelly killing was the day after Warren resigned.

No killings in October.

Killings preceded by Torso murders, and body part thrown into Scotland Yard. While some debate whether the Torso a killer and Ripper were the same man, they both had the same impact of embarrassing Metropolitan Police.

Scotland Yard was unpopular. Warren was criticised for bringing in force to quell a protest the previous November. There was known tension within Scotland Yard and with City of London Police.

Items I have omitted as fact, which could be are :

Graffiti and apron

Letters - while most are considered a hoax, some believe the Lusk letter and kidney are genuine.


There is obviously so much speculation around the Ripper. I know I'd appreciate knowing what are the facts , and hope others may as well.

All the best

Craig

Hey Craig,

There is no proof he was english, only that he spoke english. There is no proof he was well educated at all, just speculation he had a rough knowledge of anatomy.

The torso killings are another matter. They imply someone had somewhere indoors to do those murders. You're not gonna be in the street amputating limbs and transporting trunks without a vehicle of some sort.

Columbo

[Columbo]

I was also considering war veteran. Debating whether the attacks would have been considered as "stealthy".

Hey Robert,

JTR was anything but stealthy. He was most likely seen with Chapman, he made enough noise in 29 hanbury to disturb a guy peeing. If you consider Stride a victim he was seen slapping and dragging her and almost got caught in the yard. He was seen with Eddowes. He was possibly seen with Kelly if any of the stories there are true.

No, I don't think stealth was a trademark of JTR. Lucky more than stealth.

Columbo

[Columbo]

Good thread Craig.

Jack the Ripper may have been in his late 30s up to 50 years. Some races ,hide, their age well. But this question is out there for me:

What factors or events would make a man around 40 years become/turn into a serial killer?

There is no one answer to that. If these killings weren't some sort of organ trade thing for money, then it most likely was festering for quite a while inside him, but who knows?

Columbo

[Columbo]

Although I subscribe to the one-killer theory, we don't know for a certainty that there was a "Ripper".

Hey Harry,

Very, very true.

Columbo

[Fisherman]

There is no one answer to that. If these killings weren't some sort of organ trade thing for money, then it most likely was festering for quite a while inside him, but who knows?

Columbo

When it comes to trading organs for money, I think the quality of the "work" done would not meet the requirements of any discerning dealer.
It also begs the question why the killer cut out all the organs from the body of Mary Kelly, only to leave them behind as he took off.
I favour the other suggestion you make - the killer had a thing for cutting out organs.

[Fisherman]

Hey Harry,

Very, very true.

Columbo

True as it is, the better guess remains that there was a Ripper - the deeds were quite rare and there were similar traits in all the killings. The odd one out is Stride, where it seems there was not time to leave a complete calling card.

[Elamarna]

Hey Craig,

There is no proof he was english, only that he spoke english. There is no proof he was well educated at all, just speculation he had a rough knowledge of anatomy.

The torso killings are another matter. They imply someone had somewhere indoors to do those murders. You're not gonna be in the street amputating limbs and transporting trunks without a vehicle of some sort.

Columbo

Hi Craig and Columbo,

Not only is there no proof he was English, we only assume he spoke English, it is safe to assume that he could carry on some kind of conversation, and the probability must be that he did indeed speak English, but I know or no sources to support this.

It is not impossible given the diversity in London in 1888, that the killer was someone to whom English was not a first language.


It is not certain that Mrs Long saw the Ripper, even if we accept she did she only reports a few words from the man.

The only other time any evidence of spoken words is in Berner street , with the utterance of "Lipski".

On the subject of the torso murders, I have seen nothing to link them to the C5, yes there is plenty of speculation, some discussion of cuts but there is nothing concrete to tie the two series of murders together at this time.

regards

Steve

[Elamarna]

Hey Robert,

JTR was anything but stealthy. He was most likely seen with Chapman, he made enough noise in 29 hanbury to disturb a guy peeing. If you consider Stride a victim he was seen slapping and dragging her and almost got caught in the yard. He was seen with Eddowes. He was possibly seen with Kelly if any of the stories there are true.

No, I don't think stealth was a trademark of JTR. Lucky more than stealth.

Columbo

Dear Columbo,

I agree with you on that, of course there others who disagree.

Without a confession, or at the very least an id ( if he was a police officer it would lend to the idea he planned.) anyone who claims they are 100% sure if he was luck or stealthy is being dishonest with themselves.

if asked how high I rated him being lucky rather than stealthy I would say over 50% but less than say 75%.

steve

[John G]

It happens - but I think we may safely bank on the Ripper having started killing many years before 1888.

Hi Fisherman,

On what basis would that be?

[Fisherman]

Hi Fisherman,

On what basis would that be?

It would be on a strictly factual basis, where there are many clear pointers to how the Ripper and the Torso killer were one and the same. Physiologically, there are a number of likenesses within their work and mentally there are pointers to a shared and obvious inspiration ground behind both series.

Could I expand on this? Yes, I could, but I will not do so as yet, I´m afraid. Whenever I decide to present my take on it, it is much more likely to happen on JTR Forums than here.

[John G]

It would be on a strictly factual basis, where there are many clear pointers to how the Ripper and the Torso killer were one and the same. Physiologically, there are a number of likenesses within their work and mentally there are pointers to a shared and obvious inspiration ground behind both series.

Could I expand on this? Yes, I could, but I will not do so as yet, I´m afraid. Whenever I decide to present my take on it, it is much more likely to happen on JTR Forums than here.

Torso killer? Was there one Torso killer? Where's the proof that the Torso victims were murdered? Where's the precedent for a serial killer alternating between two very different signatures and, as Dr Biggs pointed out, "vastly different MO?" (Marriott, 2013.)

[Columbo]

True as it is, the better guess remains that there was a Ripper - the deeds were quite rare and there were similar traits in all the killings. The odd one out is Stride, where it seems there was not time to leave a complete calling card.

I think also there was probably just one although I've had doubts about Stride as well, and MJK only because George Hutchinson confused the who situation with his "story".

Columbo

[Fisherman]

Torso killer? Was there one Torso killer? Where's the proof that the Torso victims were murdered? Where's the precedent for a serial killer alternating between two very different signatures and, as Dr Biggs pointed out, "vastly different MO?" (Marriott, 2013.)

Like I said, John, I am not discussing it here and now. No offense, but I´ve chosen not to for the time being.

PS. I think I have mentioned it before: I am anything but impressed by quotations signed off "Marriott"... DS.

[Columbo]

When it comes to trading organs for money, I think the quality of the "work" done would not meet the requirements of any discerning dealer.
It also begs the question why the killer cut out all the organs from the body of Mary Kelly, only to leave them behind as he took off.
I favour the other suggestion you make - the killer had a thing for cutting out organs.

I don't think the organ trade had anything to do with JTR either, but since it is an excuse that's been paraded out before, I thought I'd throw it out there.

There was something definitely about the organs that had him all hot and bothered.

Columbo

[Columbo]

Torso killer? Was there one Torso killer? Where's the proof that the Torso victims were murdered? Where's the precedent for a serial killer alternating between two very different signatures and, as Dr Biggs pointed out, "vastly different MO?" (Marriott, 2013.)

Albert Desalvo quit killing and went back to rape. The yorkshire killer started strangling instead of stabbing because he didn't want to be associated with JTR. The Zodiak killer had different MO's. Maybe these aren't vastly different but they show they can and will change.

There is absolutely no factual basis for assuming a killer can't change his MO. that's alot of behavioral science bunk that's clouded peoples minds for years.

Look at it this way, how would you know if a serial killer changed him MO unless he told you and even then why would you believe a person like that without solid proof?

Columbo