Ripper Facts

[Craig H]

Hi Albert

Yes - sorry - apron is a fact. Mistake on my part

C

[David Orsam]

Dates are alingned with turmoil at Scotland Yard. The first Nicholls killing occurred when Monro resigned due to conflict with Warren. The final Kelly killing was the day after Warren resigned.

Monro resigned as Assistant Commissioner on 17 August. He formally departed from that office on 31 August just as Warren resigned as Commissioner on 8 November (or at least his letter of resignation was dated with that date) and formally departed on 3 December.

[MysterySinger]

I thought it could be useful to identify what are the actual facts we know about the Ripper, as opposed to speculation.

While it could be argued that most of what we know about JTR is speculation, there are some aspects that are more factual than others.

The following is my start ...

Witness description. The consistent picture from more reliable witnesses is he was aged 25 - 35 y.o., about 5'7" tall, was English, appeared well educated, had a moustache and was stocky built.

** Not sure that Jack being English or well educated are facts - foreigners can also speak English. If people did make these observations they were of a person they may have seen, that's not necessarily the same thing as seeing Jack.


Time of killings. He only killed on weekends in the early morning.

** Not exactly. It is useful, I think, to map the times and dates, but 5 (canonical) is not a lot to go on. MJK was on a Friday anyway. Martha Tabram thought by some to be a victim was on a Tuesday.


Had skill in cutting and anatomy. While it is contentious whether he was a doctor or butcher, one can say he was comfortable using a knife to cut flesh.

** He certainly was by the end of his spree.


He was able to move around without being detected.

** Seemingly - although if any of the witnesses were correct he may have been seen.


Dates are alingned with turmoil at Scotland Yard. The first Nicholls killing occurred when Monro resigned due to conflict with Warren. The final Kelly killing was the day after Warren resigned.

** True, and the MJK killing was on the day of the Lord Mayor's parade which I think may be significant.


No killings in October.

** None that we know of perhaps.


Killings preceded by Torso murders, and body part thrown into Scotland Yard. While some debate whether the Torso a killer and Ripper were the same man, they both had the same impact of embarrassing Metropolitan Police.

** Not entirely sure that there is a connection.


Scotland Yard was unpopular. Warren was criticised for bringing in force to quell a protest the previous November. There was known tension within Scotland Yard and with City of London Police.

** No problem with this.


Items I have omitted as fact, which could be are :

Graffiti and apron

** The Graffiti and apron are facts. There was graffiti at Goulston Street, it was erased and there was a lot of criticism of this act. Not necessarily written by the killer or by Jack. The apron piece, I think, is unlikely to have been deposited there by anyone other than the killer.


Letters - while most are considered a hoax, some believe the Lusk letter and kidney are genuine.

**The letters are facts, the Lusk letter and kidney are facts. No evidence, though, that any were written or sent by the killer/Jack.


There is obviously so much speculation around the Ripper. I know I'd appreciate knowing what are the facts , and hope others may as well.

All the best

Craig

Yes it is hard picking out the facts. Writers sometimes can put spin on things to support a particular suspect. Also, as readers (and I'm sure I'm not alone) our interpretations may be coloured by other things we're thinking about or influenced by at the time (again we may have a particular suspect in mind and try to fit the circumstantial evidence around them, albeit sub-consciously sometimes).

Undeniable facts are the murders, method of killing, the dates they happened, the location, the type and sex of the victims. Personally, I don't see the content of witness statements necessarily to be facts although they could be a genuine interpretation of what they saw, they could also be embellished, designed to mislead, plain wrong etc.

[David Orsam]

Dates are alingned with turmoil at Scotland Yard. The first Nicholls killing occurred when Monro resigned due to conflict with Warren. The final Kelly killing was the day after Warren resigned.

What turmoil at Scotland Yard occurred on 30 September?

[Geddy2112]

The only fact I'm certain of is that whoever committed the Jack The Ripper murders is long dead.

[Harry D]

Although I subscribe to the one-killer theory, we don't know for a certainty that there was a "Ripper".

[curious4]

"He was able to move around without being detected."

He was able to move around without being
suspected.

Best wishes
C4

[Craig H]

Hi David

Thx for clarification - not expressed properly on my part

I was referring to the turmoil within the police force then. Low morale, conflict between Warren and Monro, unpopularity due to Warren using force to quell protestors, conflict between Metropolitan Police and City of London Police.

Craig

What turmoil at Scotland Yard occurred on 30 September?

[Craig H]

Hi MysterySinger

Good points .... What do you think about the witnesses ?

All the best

Craig

Yes it is hard picking out the facts. Writers sometimes can put spin on things to support a particular suspect. Also, as readers (and I'm sure I'm not alone) our interpretations may be coloured by other things we're thinking about or influenced by at the time (again we may have a particular suspect in mind and try to fit the circumstantial evidence around them, albeit sub-consciously sometimes).

Undeniable facts are the murders, method of killing, the dates they happened, the location, the type and sex of the victims. Personally, I don't see the content of witness statements necessarily to be facts although they could be a genuine interpretation of what they saw, they could also be embellished, designed to mislead, plain wrong etc.

[Robert St Devil]

Hi GUT

Guess that also depends on if you are talking about skill with a knife or surgical skill.

I think it is obvious that the killer had skills using a knife.

Maybe from a trade such as leather work or butchering, or from so called sports such as hunting.

That is completely different from surgical skill, which as you say depends on who you care to believe

Steve

Hello Steve and all the best. I saw your message for me on the other board i took a break after the holidays but my interest renewed after a coworker made the 5 o,clock news for stalking and harrassing a woman. Maybe the description sounds familiar - 5,7,, broad shoulders, little brown mustache, weak eyes, dark complexion


I,ve been going over possibilities for the throat-cutting method. Does the evidence support him slicing her throat in a manner similar to slicing a loaf of bread? Or, did he insert the knife and pull it across similar to pulling a lever? Or did he ,,saw,, across her throat?

Eitherway, the sharpness of the knife seems to be unquestioned. How did Jack keep his blades surgically sharp?

If I specualte, it,s only because there is the other report of a woman being passed items that were filed down to appear like farthings(?). I,ve been wondering what type of machinery may have been available to Jack the Ripper.

[Robert St Devil]

Witness description. The consistent picture from more reliable witnesses is he was aged 25 - 35 y.o., about 5'7" tall, was English, appeared well educated, had a moustache and was stocky built.

All the best

Craig

Good thread Craig.

Jack the Ripper may have been in his late 30s up to 50 years. Some races ,hide, their age well. But this question is out there for me:

What factors or events would make a man around 40 years become/turn into a serial killer?

[Rosella]

Jack may have used one of these.

https://www.rubylane.com/item/186585-RL-EA002085/Antique-English-Butcherx27s-Knife-Sharpening-Steel

[Geddy2112]

What factors or events would make a man around 40 years become/turn into a serial killer?

A few I guess. Relationship breakdown, son or daughter killed. Psychotic break, mental illness.... stress, depression.

[Fisherman]

Good thread Craig.

Jack the Ripper may have been in his late 30s up to 50 years. Some races ,hide, their age well. But this question is out there for me:

What factors or events would make a man around 40 years become/turn into a serial killer?

It happens - but I think we may safely bank on the Ripper having started killing many years before 1888.

[Robert St Devil]

A few I guess. Relationship breakdown, son or daughter killed. Psychotic break, mental illness.... stress, depression.

I was also considering war veteran. Debating whether the attacks would have been considered as "stealthy".