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  • Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post
    C`mon JR, don`t let a little thing like that get in the way of a good theory !!
    The Edwardian journalist, William Norman Ewer, penned this memorable verse:

    How odd
    Of God
    To choose
    The Jews.

    ... to which a wag replied:

    Not odd
    Of God -
    The goyim
    Annoy 'im.
    Kind regards, Sam Flynn

    "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
      The Edwardian journalist, William Norman Ewer, penned this memorable verse:

      How odd
      Of God
      To choose
      The Jews.

      ... to which a wag replied:

      Not odd
      Of God -
      The goyim
      Annoy 'im.
      Ah yes, good old Rossers !!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post
        Ah yes, good old Rossers !!
        Ah, the wag was Leo Rosten, then. Thanks, Jon
        Kind regards, Sam Flynn

        "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
          Are you sure he was Jewish? According to his wife he would "sometimes sit and
          read the Bible for 24 hours straight off".

          Not to mention being described as the Mad Pork Butcher doesn't sound very kosher.
          His birthplace is on record, but not his ethnicity. The name Jacob Isenschmid is very likely from Jewish origins however, and I get pork from my Jewish butcher all the time. Processing and ingesting are not the same thing. And the Bible isn't strictly a Christian reference book.
          Michael Richards

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
            His birthplace is on record, but not his ethnicity. The name Jacob Isenschmid is very likely from Jewish origins however, and I get pork from my Jewish butcher all the time. Processing and ingesting are not the same thing. And the Bible isn't strictly a Christian reference book.
            surly if he was jewish it would have been noted, especially given the circs.
            "Is all that we see or seem
            but a dream within a dream?"

            -Edgar Allan Poe


            "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
            quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

            -Frederick G. Abberline

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
              surly if he was jewish it would have been noted, especially given the circs.
              "circs" = circumcision?

              Just kidding
              Kind regards, Sam Flynn

              "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
                His birthplace is on record, but not his ethnicity. The name Jacob Isenschmid is very likely from Jewish origins however, and I get pork from my Jewish butcher all the time. Processing and ingesting are not the same thing. And the Bible isn't strictly a Christian reference book.
                Isenschmidt was Church of England, Michael !!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post
                  Isenschmidt was Church of England, Michael !!
                  I found that he was Swiss in nationality, born in Bern I believe, that he was an avid reader of the bible and believed himself someone who did not follow its principles, that his daughter later changes her name to a Christian format, and that the local authorities referred to him in a way that lumped him in with the "other" Jew butchers in the neighborhood. I believe its possible that he, not Piser, was Leather Apron. But Ive never read anywhere that explicitly cites his ethnicity Jon.

                  The name certainly does suggest a Hebraic history, from Swiss and perhaps German co-mingling.

                  Im happy to concede the point if I have missed the source that states it empirically, and frankly Im not focused on that aspect in Annies case anyway. I believe, despite the pronunciation by Anderson that they determined the culprit was a Jew in September, that the night of the Double Event is the only Canonical where ethnicity might be factored in.

                  I also think that due to the strong sentiments towards Jews at that time some families might have behaved differently to avoid the persecution.
                  Michael Richards

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
                    Im happy to concede the point if I have missed the source that states it empirically,
                    It`s here in Chris Scott`s sterling research:
                    https://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=4514

                    Registered No. of Admission: 10,191
                    Date of Admission: 24th September 1887 (Seen 7 Oct 1887)
                    Name: Jacob Isenschmid
                    Age: 43
                    Parish: Islington

                    Single, Married, or Widowed: Married
                    Condition and previous occupation: Pork butcher
                    Religious Persuasion: Church of England

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
                      The name certainly does suggest a Hebraic history, from Swiss and perhaps German co-mingling.
                      There are many Jews named Isenschmidt, or equivalent, in the Yad Vashem database of Holocaust victims. I just did a search and, whilst there were no results for Isenschmidt, a search on "Eisenschmidt" (which makes more sense from a Germanic perspective) returned 190 matches. Some are exact, but most are equivalents (e.g. Ajzenszmid, Hizenszmidt) that clearly derive from a similar root name, and all of which could be rendered as "Isenschmidt", or close variants thereof, in English.

                      The overwhelming majority of these people were from Poland, mainly Łódź (natives, not deportees to the Łódź Ghetto), with three Russians from Leningrad and one resident of Berlin (although she was Polish born).
                      Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                      "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post
                        It`s here in Chris Scott`s sterling research:
                        https://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=4514

                        Registered No. of Admission: 10,191
                        Date of Admission: 24th September 1887 (Seen 7 Oct 1887)
                        Name: Jacob Isenschmid
                        Age: 43
                        Parish: Islington

                        Single, Married, or Widowed: Married
                        Condition and previous occupation: Pork butcher
                        Religious Persuasion: Church of England

                        Thanks for posting that Jon, I do recall seeing that when Lynn and I used to message each other about some Isenschmidt issues. I find that wording interesting though...why would it not be practicing Christian, or Jew, or Muslim, or Agnostic, or Presbyterian? And how would someone prove that they particpated in any religious gatherings I wonder. Would some Jewish immigrants seek to protect themselves from persecution by attending church services and adopting Christian behaviors and habits? Anglicizing themselves a bit to feel safer? Perhaps.
                        Michael Richards

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
                          Would some Jewish immigrants seek to protect themselves from persecution by attending church services and adopting Christian behaviors and habits?
                          Converting to Christianity was fairly commonplace among European Jews throughout the 19th Century. Seen in this light, it's even possible that Isenschmidt had been a Christian from birth.
                          Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                          "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
                            The name Jacob Isenschmid is very likely from Jewish origins.
                            Apparently so: https://www.houseofnames.com/eisenschmidt-family-crest

                            I note that there is a town called Eisenschmitt in the Rhineland, but my money's on the name being patronymic rather than toponymic.
                            Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                            "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                              Apparently so: https://www.houseofnames.com/eisenschmidt-family-crest

                              I note that there is a town called Eisenschmitt in the Rhineland, but my money's on the name being patronymic rather than toponymic.
                              I like the metonymic occupational take myself Sam. As I suggested earlier I think the German influence might be present, and someone who makes knifes and blades to a later generation person who uses knives and blades in their occupation sort of fits here.. maybe.
                              Michael Richards

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Michael W Richards
                                I think the German influence might be present, and someone who makes knifes and blades to a later generation person who uses knives and blades in their occupation sort of fits here.. maybe.
                                I've sometimes mused that the German words for knife and butcher, Messer and Metzger, might long ago have shared a common ancestor, but that's apparently not the case.
                                Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                                "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                                Comment

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