Ripper Facts

[Craig H]

Hi Abby
Thanks for the pick up on Marshall's comment - typo on my part - yes, it was in your prayers, not dreams.
The sunburnt or rosacea options .... I guess both mean the attacker had fair skin ??
What's your thoughts on Wilson as the first victim ?
Rgds
Craig

[jerryd]

Hi Patrick
Some good stuff here.
I thought the 5 canonical victims were all prostitutes ?? Must be a blind spot on my side, I'll revisit this.
Are you saying they were't prostitutes, or they weren't soliciting on the night ?
Interesting about what you say on the connections between the victims . I'll try and find Debra's post on how the 5 victims knew each other.
Can you post that article you mentioned ?
All interesting
Craig

Hi Craig,

I assume you were addressing me here? Anyways, I don't know if they were in Millbank at the same time. I doubt that is the case.

Here is the news clip on Annie Chapman and Mary Kelly as friends. Whether it's true or not is the question.

Echo London Middlesex November 9, 1888

[jerryd]

Here is the thread on Millbank Prison.

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=10108

[Craig H]

Hi Craig,

I assume you were addressing me here? Anyways, I don't know if they were in Millbank at the same time. I doubt that is the case.

Here is the news clip on Annie Chapman and Mary Kelly as friends. Whether it's true or not is the question.

Echo London Middlesex November 9, 1888

Hi Jerry
Sorry - yes - I meant to address that to you.
Interesting to read the Millibank clips. What do you think about it ?
Rfgds
Craig

[Debra A]

Hi Craig
Here is the original thread on Work Among the Fallen about the victims being in Millbank. This thread is a continuation of the discussion where we discovered that Millbank was in fact used as a prison for women serving shorter sentences after the time the history books say it was closed for the receiving of prisoners.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=4795

[jerryd]

Hi Craig
Here is the original thread on Work Among the Fallen about the victims being in Millbank. This thread is a continuation of the discussion where we discovered that Millbank was in fact used as a prison for women serving shorter sentences after the time the history books say it was closed for the receiving of prisoners.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=4795

Debs,

I just read something in the article I haven't noticed until now. Here is the part I mean.

But you will be doubtless more astonished to know that the last murder was the indirect cause of no less than four women coming to prison. Three of these were acquaintances and near neighbors of the poor murdered girl. They saw all the horrors that were disclosed in the room where the dead woman lay was entered, and what with their "upset feelings", as they said, and their being called upon in public-houses to narrate what they had seen, their subsequent presence at Millbank through drink was a result simply inevitable.

Merrick is most probably speaking about the Mary Kelly murder in this clip. He states three girls were near neighbors and acquaintances with her. He also states they saw all the horrors which were disclosed when the room was entered and it was due to this that they ended up in drink and subsequently in Millbank.

I wonder if he included these three as some of the supposed victims in his narrative, which obviously they couldn't have been unless they were "post" Mary Kelly murders.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

I was intrigued by the following—

"Again, it may perhaps surprise you to learn that five out of the poor women who were the victims of the Whitechapel murderer, a couple of years ago, had been in the Millbank Prison, and that one of them was released from the place and received a gift of clothes from me within twenty-four hours of her murder.

“I’ll soon get my doss money, see what a jolly bonnet I’ve got now!”

Polly Nichols fell off the radar between 24th and 30th August, and for a long time people have been wondering where she got her new hat.

Perhaps now we have the answer.

Regards,

Simon

[Michael W Richards]

Hi All,

I was intrigued by the following—

"Again, it may perhaps surprise you to learn that five out of the poor women who were the victims of the Whitechapel murderer, a couple of years ago, had been in the Millbank Prison, and that one of them was released from the place and received a gift of clothes from me within twenty-four hours of her murder.

“I’ll soon get my doss money, see what a jolly bonnet I’ve got now!”

Polly Nichols fell off the radar between 24th and 30th August, and for a long time people have been wondering where she got her new hat.

Perhaps now we have the answer.

Regards,

Simon

Just made me think.. where did Kate get her "new" jacket Simon?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Michael,

Allegedly, Eddowes bought her new jacket at Mr. Edmett’s pawnbroker’s shop, Maidstone.

Regards,

Simon

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby
Thanks for the pick up on Marshall's comment - typo on my part - yes, it was in your prayers, not dreams.
The sunburnt or rosacea options .... I guess both mean the attacker had fair skin ??
What's your thoughts on Wilson as the first victim ?
Rgds
Craig

Yes I think he had fair skin and the sunburnt face man of Ada could be blotchy.
and absolutely she could be first or early victim of the ripper.

[Debra A]

Debs,

I just read something in the article I haven't noticed until now. Here is the part I mean.

But you will be doubtless more astonished to know that the last murder was the indirect cause of no less than four women coming to prison. Three of these were acquaintances and near neighbors of the poor murdered girl. They saw all the horrors that were disclosed in the room where the dead woman lay was entered, and what with their "upset feelings", as they said, and their being called upon in public-houses to narrate what they had seen, their subsequent presence at Millbank through drink was a result simply inevitable.

Merrick is most probably speaking about the Mary Kelly murder in this clip. He states three girls were near neighbors and acquaintances with her. He also states they saw all the horrors which were disclosed when the room was entered and it was due to this that they ended up in drink and subsequently in Millbank.

I wonder if he included these three as some of the supposed victims in his narrative, which obviously they couldn't have been unless they were "post" Mary Kelly murders.

It's one of those pliable sources that you can manipulate to say whatever you want. However, no one has traced Eliza Flemming or Harriet Bowdry after the event...or have they?

[jerryd]

It's one of those pliable sources that you can manipulate to say whatever you want. However, no one has traced Eliza Flemming or Harriet Bowdry after the event...or have they?

I certainly haven't. Who are they, Debs?

Also, found this. There was another ad in 1887 with Merrick asking for "old clothing" for destitute women discharged from prison.

Guardian September 12, 1888

[Craig H]

John William Sanders

Jon Ogan identified Dr John William Sanders as a potential suspect in Ripperana in 1993.

I’m interested in Sanders as he meets criteria outlined in this thread : aged 25 – 35 y.o., surgeon, lived/worked in Whitechapel, not married. He also died in January, 1889 which could explain why the murders stopped.

Sanders was an impressive man as outlined in the following bio:

“Educated at Guy's Hospital, where he was House Surgeon, First Prizeman in Medicine, Surgery, etc (1879), and Prizeman in Anatomy, etc (1877). He was for a time Medical Officer of the Croydon Fever Hospital, and then became Resident Medical Officer of the Bethnal Green Infirmary. At the time of his early death he was Medical Superintendent of the St George-in-the East Infirmary, Princes Street, E, as well as Surgeon to the St John Ambulance Brigade. He was also a Fellow of the British Gynaecological Society and a Member of the British Medical Association.”

He had multiple medical degrees : MRCS Nov 17th 1879; FRCS June 12th 1884; LRCP Lond 1880; LSA 1879; DPH 1887; MD Brussels 1880.

John William was born in Lewes, Sussex in 1861. Both his father (William) and grandfather were Prison Governors.

He had two brothers born later when the family lived in Wales :- Brother Charles (1867) and Frederick (1869)

Charles was a Draper’s Assistant who lived with his parents. The 1911 Census has a 45 year old unmarried Charles living with father.

Frederick had a naval career. He was a Sub Lieutenant for UK Navy in 1896. He was also a Freemason.

Different psychological profiles of the Ripper talk about the person may have had difficult relationships with their parents.

In the 1871 Census, John is a boarder Student at Trent College, a boarding school near Derby, Derbyshire which is a long distance away from Sussex or Wales (which is where his parents may have been living.

He then moved to London – again a distance away from his family.

Another interesting point is I can’t find any records of any of three Sanders’ sons being married. I don’t know if this suggests anything.

It would be interesting to find out more about John William Sanders and his family.

[Pierre]

QUOTE=Craig H;403769

Jon Ogan identified Dr John William Sanders as a potential suspect in Ripperana in 1993.

I’m interested in Sanders as he meets criteria outlined in this thread : aged 25 – 35 y.o., surgeon, lived/worked in Whitechapel, not married. He also died in January, 1889 which could explain why the murders stopped.

They didn´t.

Regards, Pierre

[GUT]

QUOTE=Craig H;403769

Jon Ogan identified Dr John William Sanders as a potential suspect in Ripperana in 1993.



They didn´t.

Regards, Pierre

Who didn't what?