The records from Stone Asylum for Joseph Fleming - transcription

[lynn cates]

piece of puzzle

Hello Claire.

"I'm not even sure that locating an Isaacs in the vicinity of the Mile End Road would bring us any closer to knowing who he was, and nor am I sure that it is particularly material, beyond a simple interest in learning more about Fleming's associates (interesting in itself, I admit)."

Right on both counts. Of course, ANY added pieces to ANY of these puzzles would be interesting, as you observe.

The best.
LC

[Chris Scott]

The case notes for Evans/Fleming are in two different handwritings and each entry is signed.
The two signatories are of the names White and Patterson and it is the latter who wrote the "Isaacs" entry.
The initials/forenames of the two men are not easy to decipher. I think the names are Ernest W White and C W Patterson though I am not 100% sure on either
I am attaching below:
The original of the "Isaccs" entry, including the Patterson signature
The most legible examples I could find of the two signatories' names
Hope this helps the discussion
Chris S

[claire]

I think you're right, David...The name Isaac(s) was not exactly obscure, either. Given the rather ambulatory nature of London life, then and now, I'm not even sure that locating an Isaacs in the vicinity of the Mile End Road would bring us any closer to knowing who he was, and nor am I sure that it is particularly material, beyond a simple interest in learning more about Fleming's associates (interesting in itself, I admit).

I haven't found anyone with that name listed for anyone on the staff at the time, but that doesn't mean someone else couldn't. If we could (or, better, someone who had used that as an alias) that would be nice. At the very least, it could give us some idea about whether Fleming's bouts were, in fact, delusional.

[lynn cates]

searching question

Hello DVV. You are right that one cannot jump to conclusions. And your suggestion about searching is dead on--we must continue to search.

Of course, if you are right that Fleming killed at least MJK, his mental state, as exemplified above, would not be inconsistent with one who had committed such a crime.

The best.
LC

[DVV]

Hi Lynn,

do we know enough about Fleming's life to understand some incoherent words uttered in the loony bin ?
It gives an insight into his suffering mind, but seems lastly equally fascinating and frustrating, imo.
I would certainly not, on such a basis, link Fleming to the club.
Better search something in Mile End - with the strength of desperation at best.

Amitiés,
David

[lynn cates]

Hello Mike. If it were the same chap, that would link Fleming to some one at the socialist's club.

Thanks for that explanation.

The best.
LC

Hello Claire. Thanks for that. Not to worry. Gareth will likely pop round and solve the Isaacs mystery.

The best.
LC

That is of course if he isnt the "Issacs" that the press referred to Isaac Kozebrodski as when reporting the Dutfields Yard riot in 89 that caused him and Louis to be arrested.....a point which I was grateful to be made aware of thanks to you.

My best regards Lynn

[DVV]

A history of Stone House by Francine Payne was published in 2007:
http://tinyurl.com/dbfwf2

Hi Chris,

well...Payne...that was thename of the medic who signed Joe's death certificate...
But that was in Claybury.
Bigre!

Amitiés
David

[lynn cates]

mystery

Hello Claire. Thanks for that. Not to worry. Gareth will likely pop round and solve the Isaacs mystery.

The best.
LC

[claire]

Hi there,

Yes, the Isaacs/cocoanut shying allusion has always intrigued me, but that's because I have a tendency to see intrigue

Dr Patterson was the Assistant Medical Officer at Stone House for the 25 years up until his death in 1917. Dr Ernest White was the Medical Superintendent at the time Fleming was there, and responsible for some innovations in the care of patients. Can't help with the others at the moment, as I am between houses and without notes...my (not always reliable) memory suggests that Duncombe was on the nursing staff, but I may well be wrong.

Sorry not to be more helpful

[lynn cates]

job

Hello Suzi. Sounds like a Gareth Williams job, eh?

The best.
LC

[Suzi]

Great one Bun
Will get back tomorrow

Lynn- Like that idea of 'Is cheerful and free from delusions'!!!!- Sure it will be the census somewhere 1901 ish= if our man's still cheerfully with us

[Phil Carter]

Hello Lynn, Archaic, David, all,

"Incoherent and excited. Has many delusions, saying the writer and he were old friends in Whitechapel etc. Works well indoors. Health good."

looking at that post No.1 again, a little after your reference LC...this time there is no reference to a name.

There are names in that posting,
W.D. Duncombe
H.P initials
C.W.Patterson
Ernest W White
Isaacs

interesting lot there.

best wishes

Phil

[Archaic]

Hi, everyone.

Here's a nice aerial of view of 'The City of London Asylum, Stone House'.

Best regards, Archaic

[lynn cates]

February entry

Hello DVV. It's under post #1:

"Feb 3 1893: Weight 11st 7lbs
Is cheerful and free from delusions. Works well. Good health. To be recommended for discharge as recorded.
Feb 13th 1893: Today whilst being examined previous to discharge, he was found to express many delusions stating that the writer's name was Isaacs, he was an old friend of the writer and frequently played at cocoanut shying with him in the Mile End Road and that he also repaired the writer's house; his discharge was at once cancelled and he was sent back to the wards."

I wonder if this chap could be found in the census?

The best.
LC