The records from Stone Asylum for Joseph Fleming - transcription

[DVV]

Wonderful find, really. Thanks again for sharing.

[lynn cates]

name

Hello Debs. Good work.

I suppose there is still no information concerning why or when he first chose that name?

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

'Morning, Lynn. The first time he used the alias must have been at the police station, June 1892. When he decided to call himself James Evans, we'll never know.
As for "why", I believe the "need" of an alias might have something to do with his delusions of persecution.
Henrietta was seemingly the only person he trusted in 1892. That he gave her correct address but called her Henrietta Evans (his sister !), is fascinating.

[Rubyretro]

That he gave her correct address but called her Henrietta Evans (his sister !), is fascinating.

Does anyone know the age gap between Joe and Henrietta ? When did Henrietta marry Joe's father ?

It has to be said that it was common in the past for a young girl giving birth to an illegitimate child to pass the baby off as her mother's -the child then
growing up thinking that his mother was his sister, until he was of an age to be trusted with the truth.

Could that be the case with Joe and Henrietta ?

Maybe 'Evans' was his father's name ?

[lynn cates]

possibilities

Hello David. That makes sense. But I wonder if he called her that or the attendant merely assumed it.

Cheers.
LC

[curious]

Does anyone know the age gap between Joe and Henrietta ? When did Henrietta marry Joe's father ?

It has to be said that it was common in the past for a young girl giving birth to an illegitimate child to pass the baby off as her mother's -the child then
growing up thinking that his mother was his sister, until he was of an age to be trusted with the truth.

Could that be the case with Joe and Henrietta ?

Maybe 'Evans' was his father's name ?

Ruby,
That was still happening in this area in the 1950s and 1960s.

as an afterthought here: would that not also make him more likely to have a strange relationship with his mother? And thus, perhaps, "go bad"? if he saw her as a prostitute type?

[DVV]

His parents were both born in 1822, and married in Lambeth during summer 1842.
Their first child was Jane, born 1857, then Joseph in 1859.

[DVV]

Hope it helps (laughter).

[DVV]

Hello David. That makes sense. But I wonder if he called her that or the attendant merely assumed it.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn, you're right, excellent remark.

[Chris Scott]

His parents were both born in 1822, and married in Lambeth during summer 1842.
Their first child was Jane, born 1857, then Joseph in 1859.

Hi David
Joseph was actually one of 8 children born to Richard and Henrietta. Some of these died young but others married and had families.
The chart below gives this info
chris

[lynn cates]

Claybury

Hello Chris. Thanks for posting this.

Although I daresay this is an old question, I must ask: have the Claybury records been perused?

Cheers.
LC

[Chris Scott]

Hello Chris. Thanks for posting this.

Although I daresay this is an old question, I must ask: have the Claybury records been perused?

Cheers.
LC

I have had a look through my records and below is all I have (and sadly it seems all that exists on Fleming at Claybury):-

26 Jan 2009
I have today received a reply from Redbridge Records Office regarding any possible for Fleming after 1895 at Claybury. Whilst non committal this is a fairly positive message and, if course, I will be pursuing.
The reply reads as follows:

Dear Mr/Ms Scott,
Thank you for your enquiry.
We hold such Claybury patient records as survive (and there are very few) on behalf of the local Health Authority, who have imposed two conditions on access:

1. proof must be provided that the presence of the person in Claybury is in the public domain. Usually people send us a copy of the death certificate or the patient's 1901 census entry, both of which are fine; if you have some other record, just let us know.

2. The records are subject to 100 year closure. As you are no doubt aware, the Freedom of Information Act is gradually having an impact on the revelation of records, and the precise impact on medical records is quite a tricky area. However, both we and the Health Authority take great care to observe the law, and to be open in our dealings with the public.

I suggest that you send us the name of the person in question, and the proof that his time at Claybury is in the public domain: if you happen to know his month of admission, as well as the year, that will speed up our search. I'm afraid the chances are that we shall have nothing relating to him. However, if we are fortunate enough to find a record, we shall give you as much information as possible


2 Feb 2009
Today I received a reply from Redbridge Record Office of the information they have regarding Fleming/Evans at Claybury
Sadly there is very little - in fact the information is confined to his admission record with, apparently, no follow up notes as was the case with the Stone Asylum
Here is the reply I received today:

Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:51 AM
Subject: RE: Claybury Asylum


Dear Mr Scott,
I am glad to tell you that the Health Authority has agreed to release to you the details of Mr James Evans, alias Joseph Fleming.
The information is as follows:
He was admitted to Claybury as James Evans, on 14th February 1895, transferring from Stone. He was then 40 years old, unmarried, a pauper (the responsibility of Bethnal Green), and had been a dock labourer. His religion is given as C of E. His illness was described as mania, to which he had a hereditary disposition, and was precipitated by the use of alcohol. This was his first attack, which had lasted 3 years. He died on 28th August 1920.

You will deduce from the above that the understanding then of mental illness and its causes was very different from our own.

[The Good Michael]

Dear Mr Scott,
I am glad to tell you that the Health Authority has agreed to release to you the details of Mr James Evans, alias Joseph Fleming.
The information is as follows:
He was admitted to Claybury as James Evans, on 14th February 1895, transferring from Stone. He was then 40 years old, unmarried, a pauper (the responsibility of Bethnal Green), and had been a dock labourer. His religion is given as C of E. His illness was described as mania, to which he had a hereditary disposition, and was precipitated by the use of alcohol. This was his first attack, which had lasted 3 years. He died on 28th August 1920.

You will deduce from the above that the understanding then of mental illness and its causes was very different from our own.

Chris,

Thank you so much. It's super interesting. Dock labourer... I'm sure plasterers were needed on the docks.

Mike

[lynn cates]

private notes?

Hello Chris. Thank you.

Perhaps the attending physician left private notes somewhere?

Cheers.
LC

[Roy Corduroy]

Good morning Lynn, once you locate those private notes I can help you. Meet me for lunch. And ... oh, bring your briefcase.

Roy