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What makes Druitt a viable suspect?

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  • I don't know what I see when I look at this murder but one thing I am confident I do not see is a 'copycat' murder.
    How do we explain away the scratches? Why would the killer waste valuable time in such a situation making pointless scratches to Mackenzie’s abdomen. These were deliberately done and were not due to the killer being interrupted. This sounds to me like a killer who cuts the throat of a woman that he can possibly be linked to in some way and so he tries to make it look like a ripper killing for obvious reasons. He makes one small cut then a longer one that’s not deep then some scratches (not necessarily in that order of course) This sounds to me like someone that just can’t go through with any serious abdominal mutilation. And this after Miller’s Court? And we can’t blame interruption because the time taken for the two cuts and the scratches would have given the killer ample time for deeper mutilations.
    Regards

    Herlock




    “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
    “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
    “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
    “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
    “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by harry View Post
      Herlock,
      In not accepting the word alone of one man,is keeping an open mind.I doubt the information that Druitt's family suspected him(Druitt)of being the murderer,came directly to Mac from the family.The word family is ambiguous.Was it the whole family,only one member of the family,a distant member of the family etc. Why was suspicion aroused among the family?It is not only the lack of physical or conventional evidence that is lacking when considering Druitt,but the origin of the information that suggests Druitt might have been a murderer.
      Harry,
      For years ripperologists were scratching their heads as to the possible source of the ‘private info.’ No real link could be made that could make it even plausible that Mac might have had access to insider knowledge about Monty. Isn’t it lucky that such a link just happens to have been found in the person of Sir Vivian Majendie?

      We don’t have to blindly accept Macnaghten’s word Harry but we have no reason to believe him either a liar or a fool. In fact those that knew him held him in the highest regard. So even if we just say that it’s possible that Mac did have access to convincing evidence, and he said that he did, then Druitt might have been the ripper. The lack of physical evidence isn’t worrying. There’s no physical evidence against any suspect. I suppose the nearest that we have is Lechmere being alone with Nichols? I find it tantalising that Macnaghten May have held in his hand the evidence for who the ripper really was. And remember, he could have chosen from any number of recently dead criminals or hopelessly insane asylum inmates, without any risk of them being exonerated or any repercussions from the families. But no, he chooses an upper class Barrister/Schoolteacher and son of an eminent surgeon.

      Regards

      Herlock




      “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
      “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
      “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
      “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
      “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

      Comment


      • ^^^
        Druitt was middle-class, and I wouldn't say that William Druitt was an "eminent" surgeon - hardly in the same league as, say, Joseph Lister or William Gull. If, as we are told, the family had no doubt that Monty was the killer, then presumably the rumour started with them. So why should there have been any repercussions? Then again, there might have been repercussions if the Memorandum had actually been published, but it wasn't.
        Kind regards, Sam Flynn

        "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

          But no, he chooses an upper class Barrister/Schoolteacher and son of an eminent surgeon.

          And where have you read his father was a surgeon?! let alone an eminet surgeon?!

          Macnaghten didn't choose a barrister, he chose a doctor, how do you know that Macnaghten would have continued favouring Druitt if he knew he wasn't a doctor?!


          The Baron
          Last edited by The Baron; 05-01-2019, 11:02 AM.

          Comment


          • Interesting 2016 essay about Druitt on the New College Oxford website:

            https://www.new.ox.ac.uk/sites/defau...e%20Ripper.pdf

            I don't know if it's been posted before, but it's a new one on me.
            Kind regards, Sam Flynn

            "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
              ^^^
              Druitt was middle-class, and I wouldn't say that William Druitt was an "eminent" surgeon - hardly in the same league as, say, Joseph Lister or William Gull. If, as we are told, the family had no doubt that Monty was the killer, then presumably the rumour started with them. So why should there have been any repercussions? Then again, there might have been repercussions if the Memorandum had actually been published, but it wasn't.
              Macnaghten says he had little doubt that Druitt's family believed he was the murderer. A nit-picky point, perhaps, but we can conjecture that if the information came from the family, Macnaghten would have known what they believed, not had little doubt. I don't think we can presume the rumour started with the family. It may have done, of course, but also with someone else using the same information. As you say, the memorandum wasn't written or intended for publication. Conundrums!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by PaulB View Post

                As you say, the memorandum wasn't written or intended for publication. Conundrums!
                ... the Macnaghten Conundrum, perhaps?
                Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                  ^^^
                  Druitt was middle-class, and I wouldn't say that William Druitt was an "eminent" surgeon - hardly in the same league as, say, Joseph Lister or William Gull.
                  You know that was the first thing I thought of when I read that.


                  I
                  Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                  f, as we are told, the family had no doubt that Monty was the killer, then presumably the rumour started with them. So why should there have been any repercussions? Then again, there might have been repercussions if the Memorandum had actually been published, but it wasn't.
                  Also, we are told that everything leaks out eventually. If you were a member of Druitt's family would you let it be known that you suspected Monty of being the Ripper. Apparently the circumstances surrounding those suspicions were quite damning, as the more Mac thought about it the more convinced he was convinced that Monty was the Ripper. Mac said the information with regard to Druitt did not emerge until some years after he became a detective officer. I believe it's widely accepted that he received the information second, or even third hand. So this information was privy to Druitt's family, and others for some years, and not a jot of it emerged during that time? I find it highly suspicious. I'm not knocking Mac though, I believe he was spun a yarn.

                  Comment


                  • And where have you read his father was a surgeon?! let alone an eminet surgeon?! N
                    Are you saying that you didn’t know that Druitt’s father was a surgeon?

                    ‘Eminent’ was a poor choice of word. I should have said ‘respected.’
                    Regards

                    Herlock




                    “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
                    “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
                    “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
                    “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
                    “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

                    Comment


                    • Macnaghten didn't choose a barrister, he chose a doctor, how do you know that Macnaghten would have continued favouring Druitt if he knew he wasn't a doctor?!
                      The point being that he chose, as suspect, someone with no history of criminality or violence. Someone from a respectable family that was connected to his very good friend Vivian Majendie. Someone that would have been much easier to investigate should anyone decide to than someone like Kosminski for example. And so with any number of ‘disposable’ ripper candidates to choose from in any graveyard or asylum, Macnaghten picks a man from a family connected by marriage to one of his best friends? Now I find that hard to believe.
                      Regards

                      Herlock




                      “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
                      “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
                      “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
                      “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
                      “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                        And so with any number of ‘disposable’ ripper candidates to choose from in any graveyard or asylum, Macnaghten picks a man from a family connected by marriage to one of his best friends? Now I find that hard to believe.
                        By the time of Macnaghten's memo, both of Druitt's parents were dead, and Druitt had disposed of himself. And Majendie's link to the Druitt clan was only via the marriage of his cousin's niece to a cousin of Montague Druitt, so it was hardly a close one. Given that Isabel (Majendie) Hill only married Charles Druitt in 1888, it's even possible that Macnaghten was unaware of this somewhat tenuous connection at the time he wrote the memorandum. It wouldn't surprise me, given that Macnaghten got so much wrong about Druitt - and Ostrog, for that matter.
                        Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                        "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                        Comment


                        • Vivian Majendie could also be a link to Douglas Browne's comment that Macnaghten appears to Identify Jack with an Irish Nationalist who was attempting to assassinate Balfour. Since Majendie was a bomb disposable expert during the Fenian dynamite campaign.
                          Regards Darryl

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon
                            Majendie was a bomb disposable expert during the Fenian dynamite campaign.
                            Off topic, but I had a wonderful lecturer at University, Prof Norman Dixon, who had his arm blown off whilst in the process of disabling a bomb. With typical dark humour, he maintained that the only reason he went on to be awarded a military MBE was because of his "own bloody stupidity".

                            He later went on to write, amongst other things, an entertaining and informative book called On the Psychology of Military Incompetence​​​​​​ (in which his own moment of incompetence/bravery doesn't feature too heavily, if at all). It's still in print, and it's well worth reading. Although the book focuses on military incompetence, there's no reason why it shouldn't apply to other hierarchical occupations like the police, so it should be of interest to ripperologists.
                            Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                            "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                              By the time of Macnaghten's memo, both of Druitt's parents were dead, and Druitt had disposed of himself. And Majendie's link to the Druitt clan was only via the marriage of his cousin's niece to a cousin of Montague Druitt, so it was hardly a close one. Given that Isabel (Majendie) Hill only married Charles Druitt in 1888, it's even possible that Macnaghten was unaware of this somewhat tenuous connection at the time he wrote the memorandum. It wouldn't surprise me, given that Macnaghten got so much wrong about Druitt - and Ostrog, for that matter.
                              But we can’t be certain that he wasn’t fully aware of that family link. I know that you disagree Sam, and of course I’ve no issue with that, but I still question why, if Mac was just cobbling together a list of ‘better than Cutbush’ suspects why he should suggest a man like Druitt just because he died just after the Kelly murder. Ostrog was a criminal, Kosminski was insane but Druitt was a respectable Barrister/Schoolteacher with no criminal or violent history. And if anyone decided to look into Mac’s suspects Druitt would have been the easiest to check (accepted that we now know that Ostrog wasn’t around.) Mac was doing himself no favours by favouring Druitt....unless he had good reason to of course.
                              Regards

                              Herlock




                              “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
                              “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
                              “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
                              “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
                              “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

                              Comment


                              • It was a distant family link in any case.
                                Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                                "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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