Photographs of Druitt - A Question

[Mike Covell]

He was called to give evidence but blamed the whole affair on Cumming and not his hosts the Wilson's who also had links to the Duke of Clarence, who was a regular visitor to the estate, and links to the Stephenson family (Robert D'Onston Stephenson's brother Richard Stephenson jnr was a councillor, and on good terms with the Wilsons)

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your reply. I also recall that HRH was called to give evidence or else, which must have chuffed the dissipated old bugger immensely!

Hi Chris,

My God, Druitt and Clarence could be twins! Now then - what I wonder could possibly be made of that? Unless it's just pure coincidence, of course...

Cheers,

Graham

I reckon HRH should have been up before the beak over having a fling with a married lady named Harriet Mordaunt.HRH declined the ordeal so her husband had her locked up for 38 years instead![talking of Prince Albert"s Dad HRH Eddie----not his son in the photo.

[Mike Covell]

The Apostles!
JK Stephen is on the second row, centre sporting a hat and pipe.

HRH Duke of Clarence is sat in front of him.

[Chris Scott]

And here's Monty in glorious technicolour!

[Mike Covell]

Nice work Chris, how about one with a red neck tie.....

[Chris Scott]

Red is this year's colour...

[Johnr]

Chris,
Glorious perambulation these threads take us on.
In answer to your original photo question. Yes, there is a third MJD photo, it was first published in CRICKETER by Irving Rosenwater, the cricket statistician. In, I think Jauary, 1973. He wrote an article from the then, novel angle which the title summed up as: "Jack The Ripper: A Sort Of Cricketing Person". And it dealt with some of MJD's matches.He was a member of the M.C.C.
I have only ever seen the three photos of MJD. What fascinates me most about them is, that, unlike, say the Apostles or the other cricketers in his group photo, MJD is not looking at the camera in any of the photos.
Does that say anthing about the man? JOHN RUFFELS.

[Mike Covell]

Hi John,
Perhaps he was camera shy or insecure!!

[BillyE]

Many thanks indeed to you, Chris. Those were indeed the photos I was thinking of.

[The Grave Maurice]

the Duke of Clarence... in shooting [deer] gear....

Fishing gear, surely. (Yeah, I know: Don't call me Shirley.)

[aspallek]

I'll be visiting the archives at Winchester College next week. The archivist tells me there are additional photos of Druitt in the files, including class photos in which he is apparently identifiable. Unfortunately, these pictures are going in the wrong direction on the timeline. More useful would be a picture of Druitt at age 30.

[Robert]

Hi Andy

Good luck with your expedition.

Piece of trivia : "a Wyke Smith" and "Wykehamist" are anagrams of each other.

[Johnr]

Hello Robert and Andy,

Yes, Robert, most extraordinary that Wyke-Smith and Wykehamist are anagrams for each other. Coincidence ....

Andy,
I think the most useful thing about the Winchester archives, and particularly the photos is as an indication of just who Montague Druitt was close to at school.
Unless of course, pupils were arranged in photos, as we were at our school: from tallest at the back row, to smallest at the front.
" Trusty Servant" and other written items might also throw up further clues to pals of Montague. Best of luck with your researches.Which, as you say, could prove things either way eventually. JOHN RUFFELS.

[Mayerling]

Re: Tranby Croft

Hi Graham:

Tranby Croft, originally, was the home of Arthur Wilson, a wealthy shipping line magnate, near (I believe) Hull (Mike Covell can correct me on that). Wilson and his family were social climbers, and managed to gain the attention of Albert Edward, Prince of Wales (the future Edward VII). They invited him on occasion to their home for a weekend. This meant also having room for the Prince's usual entourage. This included Col. Sir William Gordon-Cummings, who was a wealthy military man and sportsman. He was also a snob and a tart-tongued person, whose comments made many enemies. One has to keep that in mind regarding what happened.

In August 1890 the Prince, Sir William and others were at Tranby Croft for a weekend relaxation. This included a game of baccarat, which was illegal at that time in England. The Prince played it anyway, and even had his own set of markers when he played. The game proceeded and soon some of the people began thinking that Sir William (who was winning a little) had been cheating by his use of palmed markers to cover erroneous betting (at least this is how I believe the so-called cheating was done). Nothing was said to the Prince, but the following day Sir William was confronted by several witnesses, and made the mistake of signing a declaration that promised he'd never play in a card game again. He apparently signed because he felt that there would not be a word said about the incident, but soon he found a chilliness directed to him at all his social clubs. He realized that word had been spread about him after all.

Sir William brought suit against several people for libel, and his barrister was Sir Edward Clarke, one of the greatest of barristers in the late 19th Century.
Clarke hated liars and bullying. He took several of the parties apart on the witness stand. But he also had the Prince put on the stand as a witness, and proceeded to ask questions on the nature of the legality of the game.
For Albert Edward it was a repeat of an earlier disaster: in 1876 he was called as correspondent and witness at the Mordaunt Divorce Case. It had done damage to his public image (he had to take a trip to India afterwards to avoid public attention for awhile - similar to the trip to India that his son, the Duke of Clarence, took in 1889-90 to India in the wake ot the Cleveland Street Scandal). Now this all rearose, not about his being an adulterer as in the Mordaunt Case, but in his gambling habits and his flaunting the laws.

The case ended with Sir William losing - the signed statement just could not be dismissed. It ended his social career - card cheating being not respectable behavior for his class. But the issue remains: did he really cheat or did he sign in a doomed attempt to head off a scandal?

Jeff

[Bailey]

What brought this to mind was a passage in the Dan Farson book which I was looking at today. This reads as follows:
"Druitt appears in various college groups in the seventies and the photograph of the Winchester First XI in 1876 is reproduced in this book." The paperback copy of the book I have does not include the photo.

I think we have the same edition, Chris. My copy also mentions the photo, but it's not actually there. My copy is in decent condition, and does not appear to be missing any pages from the photo section, so I guess there was some sort of rights issue between editions but the text wasn't adjusted accordingly?

The book also has all the photos numbered and a corresponding list - all pictures are accounted for by this list and the team picture is not mentioned.

Mine is a paperback, first Sphere Books edition 1973, according to the info inside the first page.