Druitt and the Civil Service

[Chris Scott]

A subtantial number of the people on this list with Monty went on to become well known and one, Charles Kains-Jackson, to be infamous!
Chris

[jason_c]

A super find, Chris. With teaching, the law, and ambitions concerning the civil service, it seems Monty just wasn't interested in medicine.

As soon as I viewed this thread my immediate thought was of Macnaghten's "said to be a doctor". It seems Druitt was not set on a career in law from an early age.

[Graham]

Chris,

This is a truly astonishing discovery! Could it be, one wonders, that the source of Macnaghten's "private info" may have been Ruggles-Brise...? Just a thought...

Mitch Rowe,

"Community Health Care" in 1888? Somehow, I don't think so...

Cheers,

Graham

[Chris Scott]

With all the speculation about Druitt's alleged homosexuality and the "serious trouble" he got into, I wonder how well he knew Charles Kains-Jackson...
This from a book review in the Times of October 1970
Also worth reading

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Kains_Jackson

[Sam Flynn]

With all the speculation about Druitt's alleged homosexuality and the "serious trouble" he got into, I wonder how well he knew Charles Kains-Jackson...
This from a book review in the Times of October 1970

Noted the name of Henry Tuke mentioned as being part of Kains-Jackson's coterie of pederastic friends. Henry Tuke was a member of the Tuke family, whose asylum is, of course, connected to the Druitt saga.

Also, Kains-Jackson was apparently friendly with Alfred Douglas, Oscar Wilde's beloved "Bosie", and an old boy of Druitt's alma mater, Winchester College.

O what a tangled web

[Chris Scott]

Here is CKJ's obituary (Times 4 December 1933)

[m_w_r]

Just as a matter of comparison, here are M.J.'s contemporaries in the Lit Hum at Oxford:



You will notice that Ruggles-Brise and Cohn (both on the civil service list) got first-class degrees: Druitt got a third. And yet he went on to compete with them for the civil service exam. Clearly, it's not a complete comparison, but Druitt may have attached some importance to competing with people who were, ultimately, more able than he was: even his 1876 letter to his uncle Robert (discussed elsewhere) suggests a character who puts considerable (almost perfectionistic) value on intellectual achievement (D.J. Leighton in his book Ripper Suspect describes the tone of the letter as "rather superior"), whereas, even in Late Victorian England, a letter to his uncle might quite reasonably have taken a more relaxed tone.

I wonder whether Druitt wasn't prone to over-reach himself sometimes, pressure himself to achieve, even undertake projects (like the civil service exam) which would demonstrate achievement, because he was seeking a sense of recognition. Of course, in this sort of context, with regard to Druitt's adaptive behaviours, some people might make more of the reference to his mother in his suicide note ...

Purely theoretical, though.

Regards,

Mark

[Mayerling]

From another prospective

Hi all,

As a matter of fact, being a member of the same profession from the state of New York (the ex-colony of New York), I can only add that no matter how non-political the positions are supposed to be, sooner or later you cannot fail to be pulled into all sorts of political repercussions due to policies you are forced to implement.

Also, the top most positions are usually going to be given to people with political pull or "friends of friends of friends".

It also gets extremely tedious.

However, it was not unusual for men with legal bents or backgrounds like Monty to become civil servants or to take tests for the jobs. Monty's contemporary, Gerald Geogheghan (the barrister who represented Frederick Deeming before the Privy Council appeal in 1892, and later represented Neill Cream in his poisoning trial the same year) took the Civil Service tests for India.

Jeff

[Mitch Rowe]

Chris,

This is a truly astonishing discovery! Could it be, one wonders, that the source of Macnaghten's "private info" may have been Ruggles-Brise...? Just a thought...

Mitch Rowe,

"Community Health Care" in 1888? Somehow, I don't think so...

Cheers,

Graham

Right..Thats what Im saying. If there had been something in place maybe Druitt would have had an alternative other than suicide. But then again maybe not. Here in Allegan County Michigan the health services and Police force are so poor I dont think they are much more advanced than London would have been in 1888. I know if a guy like JTR was running around in this County the Police would never catch him. They would probably do the same as London Police did in 1888 and try to pin it on an innocent. They would have probably made up evidence against Pizer and had him convicted and sentenced before the double event even occured. Then blamed the other murders on some-one else.
It just goes to show that training dont mean anything. You can train your officers as much as you like. But if they are dumb to begin with there will be no improvement.

[aspallek]

This is going to take a lot of reflection to put into perspective. Thanks to those who explained what "civil service" means in Britain. It appears to be very similar to "civil service" in America, a broad, encompassing term.

As to his third-class degree, I think that is an anomaly in Druitt's career. His academic career at Winchester demonstrates that he was capable of much better. Something apparently interfered with his education at Oxford. It has long been conjectured that his interest in sport was too much of a distraction. That could be. However, it also might be that the beginnings of his probable bout with depression had begun to assert itself as it often does in one's late teens to early twenties.

[Johnr]

More Needed On Edward Tyas Cook

Well done Chris,
Another good find. As are the University results.
One strategy I think which might be useful, is to seek out the celebrities from M J Druitt's contempories, and see if their memoirs or biographies yeild any mention of Druitt.
One such contemprary luminary, was Edward Tyas Cook. He appears on both lists.
From memory, he was at New College at the same time as Druitt, but was he also from Winchester College? Did he come to the bar from the Inner Temple?
I seem to recollect he was in a couple of the same institutions as Druitt.
Who was Edward Tyas Cook? JOHN RUFFELS.

[Stewart P Evans]

Post Office

The old General Post Office used to be part of the civil service, and postmen were civil servants before privatisation. If Druitt was hoping for a career in the civil service it should not be surprising as many lawyers worked in the civil service.

[Natalie Severn]

A subtantial number of the people on this list with Monty went on to become well known and one, Charles Kains-Jackson, to be infamous!
Chris

Now what would have been amazing would have been if the James Henry Connolly on the list were one and the same James Connolly, as the Irish Revolutionary who was executed after the Easter Rising of 1916----but I suspect they are different.The latter James Connolly was born in Edinburgh in 1868.
Great Find Chris!

[Chris Scott]

Stewart
many thanks for the info which may be very relevant
of those on the list I have traced certainly a few ended up in the legal profession
The following is speculation as I do not have the knowledge to verify but possibly anyone hoping for any Government funded legal work may have needed to satisfy the entry requirements for the Civil Service.
Also, another issue - was the Official Secrets Act (or an equivalent) in force at this time?
Thanks for the comments and the help
Chris

[Chris Scott]

John R
You asked about Edward Tyas Cook. Im adding below his obit from the Times (2 October 1919) The same educational background as MJD - also he came from Blackheath
Hope this helps
Chris