Is it plausible that Druitt did it?

[Chris]

As I said, for more information, read Toughill's book.

I think your message is fairly clear.

[Mrs Hudson]

The book is where the material is to be found.

I don't think you'll be disappointed, especially if you like signatures.

[Natalie Severn]

Nats,

No offense, but arguing that Druitt is a dead ringer for Mr. Astrakhan is akin to arguing that W.T. Stead is a dead ringer for Santa Claus.

Not so sure Ben.Maybe not a "dead ringer" which surely has to be Chapman,but certainly found dressed in exactly that type of gear.
But Druitt too had dark hair,deep set eyes and pale skin by the look of his photos.....

[Carrotty Nell]

Commuter serial killers are rare, and when dealing with crime scenes that are as closely clustered as the Whitechapel series were, they're virtually non-existent. Commuters tend to "mix it up" location-wise rather than restricting themselves to such a tiny circumscribed area. A circumscribed area invariably points away from a "commuter" and in the direction of a local resident. Now, I could ignore a century's worth of findings in this regard, slag off anyone with expertise and experience in the field, and then argue that Jack the Ripper was a commuter killer anyway, but personally, I have found these findings both interesting and instructive and tend to be led by them.

But what if the killer had a particular reason or association with this area. Earlier on this thread (or it might have been another thread) someone brought up the analogy of the curry house. If a lawyer from King's Bench Walk had a favourite curry house that happened to be in Brick Lane you would quite expect to find him in Brick Lane every Friday. What if it was not the AREA as such which was important to Druitt but SOMEONE who lived there. By someone I am thinking of someone in particular. Someone who lived in the same street as three of the other victims and was known to be a friend of at least one. Someone who was known to have frequented a pub in Fish Street which was patronised by the lawyers from the Inns of Court. I cannot offer any evidence of course but I believe it's a consideration that makes sense.

[Ben]

Hi Nell,

If a lawyer from King's Bench Walk had a favourite curry house that happened to be in Brick Lane you would quite expect to find him in Brick Lane every Friday

Fine by today's standards. I'm an outsider who has a "favourite curry house" on Brick Lane, but I had an incentive to go there in the first place: it has a vibrant atmoshphere and nice curry houses. There was no incentive for a successful upper-middle class lawyer to go dining in 1888 Brick Lane, and if they did curries there in those days, I dread to think of the ingredients! Even if I lived in 1888 and my best friend lived in Spital Square, for example, I'd hop off at Liverpool Street and proceed straight there. I wouldn't build up a close familiarity with the East End in so doing.

Even if I did, but wanted to kill prostitutes in the area, I certainly wouldn't have headed East after cutting down Kate Eddowes in Mitre Square as the real ripper unquestionably did.

Hi Nats,

Maybe not a "dead ringer" which surely has to be Chapman,but certainly found dressed in exactly that type of gear.

Even worse, m'afraid.

Klosowski did not acquire his penchant for snappy dressing until after his return from America, when he was living in Tottenham High Road in 1895. As an impoverished immigrant in 1888, he couldn't have afforded anything resembling Astrakhan's bling. Moreover, strong evidence suggests that he could not speak English at that stage. Also, the age is wrong by at least ten years etc etc.

Best regards,
Ben

[Dan Norder]

Toughill's research shows beyond reasonable doubt that Oscar Wilde knew the Druitt brothers and even that he knew Montague carnally.

Absolute nonsense. In fact, it doesn't show it to be even reasonable to speculate that Oscar Wilde and Montague Druitt were lovers, it's just a wildly fantastical speculation based upon the slightest of information interpreted in a very specific way that's not even particularly plausible.

Toughill's book is just another in a long line of books that confuses wishful thinking and the most bizarre of unsupported assumptions with actual evidence.

[Mrs Hudson]

Does Mr. Norder understand the role played by the Oxford Union in the heyday of the British Empire? Or what it could have meant then for a young man to be told that he was not considered fit to be a member of it?

Oscar Wilde and Montague Druitt were blackballed by the Oxford Union. That is a fact.

Anyway, my employer and his doctor friend are returning this evening, from Switzerland I believe. From now on, I'll be busy looking after them.

[Doctor X]

Is there any actual evidence of this relationship between Wilde and Druitt other than they were black balled from the Oxford Union?

--J.D.

[Dan Norder]

Apparently either everyone who failed to make it into the Oxford Union was sleeping with Oscar Wilde, or he took it upon himself to sleep with everyone who was not admitted.

In other words, no, there's absolutely nothing to indicate Wilde and Druitt were lovers.

And Mrs. Hudson here can have her employer spell out the logic to her later... or, failing that, even Dr. Watson.

[Doctor X]

. . . or he took it upon himself to sleep with everyone who was not admitted.

Well, a man must have vision.

--J.D.

[Mrs Hudson]

Sexually Insane

I could ask the good doctor for an explanation of the phrase "sexually insane".

Druitt was labelled "sexually insane" by Melville Macnaghten, who was Oscar Wilde's neighbour in 1888. Wilde termed the carnal passions which led to his own imprisonment in 1895 as "sexual insanity". (That was in a petition to the government from his prison cell.)

Bye

[Doctor X]

That constitutes evidence of a relationship between Wilde and Druitt other than they were black balled from the Oxford Union how?

Yours truly,

--J.D.

[Carrotty Nell]

I would like to point that if MJD was homosexual it renders him less likely to be the Whitechapel murderer. I'm not saying gay men cannot murder female sex workers, but is it very likely? The sheer ferocity of these attacks indicates that the killer was getting off in some way at least. Whether he was reacting to his own sexual inadequacy or whatever, that still makes him heterosexual. As with virtually everthing in MJD's case we can only deal in likelihoods, not proofs, and the LIKELIHOOD is that the Whitechapel murderer was heterosexual.

One can imagine I suppose a homosexual angry at his sexuality taking it out on women. But such a person would hardly be comfortable in a relationship with an overt homosexual like Wilde. Nor would Wilde, who was a decent family man please remember, wish to have a relationship with such a depraved individual.

[Ally]

Doctor X,

Don't you know? All gay men sleep together. It's a proven fact. If MJD was gay, and Oscar Wilde was gay, and they had the barest passing acquaintenance, like walking past each other in a hallway, then by the tenets of gaydom, they were required to sleep together. So of course they were lovers!

[The Good Michael]

All gay men sleep together. It's a proven fact.

Ally, I follow you here. Does this include pre-op transsexuals and, in my case, women trapped in men's bodies? I need to know so I understand which way I should lean.

Thank you.

Mike