Is it plausible that Druitt did it?

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Nats.

I've got a vague memory of some British general (Crimean War, maybe) who made a ghastly balls-up and it was suggested to him that he be left alone in his tent with a pistol. His response to this suggestion was that he'd only be prepared to do it if his full-dress uniform could be located. Way to go.

Cheers,

Graham

Thats what I call cool!

[Mrs Hudson]

Toughill's research shows beyond reasonable doubt that Oscar Wilde knew the Druitt brothers and even that he knew Montague carnally. After all, Wilde and Montague spent two years together at Oxford, almost certainly as members of the gay community there. That plus the fact that Wilde and Macnaghten were neighbours in 1888 surely make for a convincing argument that Wilde influenced the writing of Macnaghen's Memorandum.

Here, Toughill makes another interesting point. This is that Michael Ostrog, Macnaghten's third suspect, once stole from a Fellow of New College, Oxford, the very College where Montague Druitt studied. Toughill also shows that Ostrog, as described by Macnaghten, bears a strong resemblance to a character in Wilde's play, Vera.

[Graham]

Toughill's research shows beyond reasonable doubt that Oscar Wilde knew the Druitt brothers and even that he knew Montague carnally. After all, Wilde and Montague spent two years together at Oxford, almost certainly as members of the gay community there. That plus the fact that Wilde and Macnaghten were neighbours in 1888 surely make for a convincing argument that Wilde influenced the writing of Macnaghen's Memorandum.

Here, Toughill makes another interesting point. This is that Michael Ostrog, Macnaghten's third suspect, once stole from a Fellow of New College, Oxford, the very College where Montague Druitt studied. Toughill also shows that Ostrog, as described by Macnaghten, bears a strong resemblance to a character in Wilde's play, Vera.

Mrs H,

First, I got to buy Toughill's book.

Second, according to my much-thumbed and falling-apart JTR A-Z, Ostrog was convicted of theft from Oxford colleges (plural) in 1863 and was collared for it. Long before Druitt or Wilde were at Oxford (Druitt was born in 1853 and Wilde in 1854, so I'm not sure how Ostrog could really have influenced Wilde's writing, unless Oscar was far more precocious than previously thought.

Third, and again according to the A-Z, Ostrog seemed capable of nicking anything from anyone - he stole stuff at Cambridge, Tunbridge Wells, Gloucester, Maidstone, Chatham, Woolwich Barracks, Eton School (twice - sheer class!), Woolwich Barracks again!, and a few others. Jack the Nicker!

Cheers,

Graham

[Chris]

Mrs Hudson

Is this claim that Oscar Wilde was blackballed by the Oxford Union supposed to be a new discovery? There seems to be no mention of it in any online source I can find.

What is the evidence for this claim?

[Natalie Severn]

Toughill's research shows beyond reasonable doubt that Oscar Wilde knew the Druitt brothers and even that he knew Montague carnally. After all, Wilde and Montague spent two years together at Oxford, almost certainly as members of the gay community there. That plus the fact that Wilde and Macnaghten were neighbours in 1888 surely make for a convincing argument that Wilde influenced the writing of Macnaghen's Memorandum.

Here, Toughill makes another interesting point. This is that Michael Ostrog, Macnaghten's third suspect, once stole from a Fellow of New College, Oxford, the very College where Montague Druitt studied. Toughill also shows that Ostrog, as described by Macnaghten, bears a strong resemblance to a character in Wilde's play, Vera.

Mrs Hudson,
What evidence do you have that Oscar knew Montague Druitt carnally?

[Graham]

Mrs Hudson

Is this claim that Oscar Wilde was blackballed by the Oxford Union supposed to be a new discovery? There seems to be no mention of it in any online source I can find.

What is the evidence for this claim?

Chris,

Check www.arts.cornell.edu. The Oxford Union rejected his collected works 'Poems' on the basis of plagiarism. He objected to this charge, because the Union had invited him to present it, and eventually he received a letter of apology from the Union. There is no suggestion that he was 'blackballed'. As I don't have an Oxbridge background, I can't comment upon whether it was/is possible to be 'blackballed' from the Oxford Union. However, it would seem that the Union and Oscar were not on the best of terms.

Cheers,

Graham

[Chris]

The Oxford Union rejected his collected works 'Poems' on the basis of plagiarism.

Yes. The Oxford Union voted to refuse a volume of poetry. That's very well documented.

But what I'm asking about is the claim that Oscar Wilde was blackballed by the Oxford Union.

[Graham]

Yes. The Oxford Union voted to refuse a volume of poetry. That's very well documented.

But what I'm asking about is the claim that Oscar Wilde was blackballed by the Oxford Union.

Like I said in my last post, I ain't qualified to comment. But if Toughill is, then I can't make any further comment until I've read his book.

Graham

[Chris]

Like I said in my last post, I ain't qualified to comment.

That's all right. I wasn't asking you to comment.

[Ben]

Hi Caz,

I have always suggested someone who knew his way around from personal experience, and could at least show his victims the money and not do anything to make them think he was ‘different’ or not to be trusted - especially by the time the street-wise Kate Eddowes accompanied this stranger into the darkness of Mitre Square.

...And the vast majority of people fitting that mould would have been working class locals who had viable targets on their own doorstep rather than outsiders - wealthy or otherwise - who insisted upon one highly localized pocket of the worst district in London to carry out their crimes. Just like the vast majority of serial killers who commit their crimes in such a localized "pocket" tend to be locally resident.

And whaddya know? Crime scene evidence points towards this being the case in the Whitechapel series.

So if the world was Jack’s oyster, what do you think would have been a better way of encountering a plentiful supply of women he could get alone and take his knife to and then leave the scene without a trace, free to repeat the process, if not on the streets after midnight in an overcrowded district?

Again, this is where we learn from the past. Denis Nilsen, Jeffrey Dahmer, the Wests, John Christie, Albert Fish all had private accomodation that they didn't share with others. If our 1888 killer had privatenaccomodation, he could easily have used his own home to dispatch and dispose of his victims. You seem to be entrenched in the notion that serial killers start off with a ready-made mentality of: "Right, I need somewhere suitable to start my "campaign" so I shall select...dah dee dah dee dum...THAT district in London"...despite that mindset not gelling together very well with known serial killer behaviour in relation to those geographical circumstances, but whenever this is pointed out, you become disparagng about anyone with any expertise in the field - criminologists, profilers and the like - and start claiming that "statistics" count for nothing.

So even your own argument about clusters supports the streets of Whitechapel as being the best option from the killer’s point of view, if he was familiar enough with the area to begin doing his thing there in the first place.

It's a good option, but it wasn't the best. It was one of many options in the East End and in Greater London. Commuter serial killers are rare, and when dealing with crime scenes that are as closely clustered as the Whitechapel series were, they're virtually non-existent. Commuters tend to "mix it up" location-wise rather than restricting themselves to such a tiny circumscribed area. A circumscribed area invariably points away from a "commuter" and in the direction of a local resident. Now, I could ignore a century's worth of findings in this regard, slag off anyone with expertise and experience in the field, and then argue that Jack the Ripper was a commuter killer anyway, but personally, I have found these findings both interesting and instructive and tend to be led by them.

So why would a non-local man, who could have been familiar with the killing field for a wide variety of reasons, go to pastures new if they were no more familiar to him than your local man?

A person with transport and the means to acquire it is more likely to become familiar with "pastures anew" because, unlike our local footslogger, he had a way of getting there in the first place!

Best regards,
Ben

[Ben]

Nats,

No offense, but arguing that Druitt is a dead ringer for Mr. Astrakhan is akin to arguing that W.T. Stead is a dead ringer for Santa Claus.

[Mrs Hudson]

As I've already said, Toughill has discovered that both Oscar Wilde and Montague Druitt were blackballed by the Oxford Union. There are photos in his book, The Ripper Code, to prove that.

Toughill has also discovered that Wilde served as a probationary member to the Union with Montague's elder brother, William Harvey Druitt. Wilde was not elected to the Union, but William was. He signed Montague into the Union as a guest in April 1875.

For more information, I suggest you read Toughill's book.

[Chris]

As I've already said, Toughill has discovered that both Oscar Wilde and Montague Druitt were blackballed by the Oxford Union. There are photos in his book, The Ripper Code, to prove that.

So, just to clarify, the claim is that this is a new discovery about Oscar Wilde that has eluded Wilde scholars for more than a century? I'm not saying it's impossible, but of course it would be very surprising.

[Mrs Hudson]

Toughill's material looks convincing to me. The photos are reproduced with the permission of the Oxford Union.

As I said, for more information, read Toughill's book.

[aspallek]

I guess I'll have to purchase another book. But just remember there was a book about a man named Williams that had photographs in it, too....