Does anyone believe MJD was murdered?

[Errata]

Yes, and then, deciding at the last minute to leave a suitable message for the living, he rose, dead, from his watery grave, crossed town again (without using his return ticket or attracting suspicion), wrote the note which was later found in his place of residence ("the best thing for me was to die" - past tense, you'll notice), went out again, crossed town without being observed, and crawled back into the Thames, from which he was pulled, still dead, some weeks later.

Perfect.

Regards,

Mark

Or like most suicide victims he had a couple of false starts, and the note was left over from a previous crisis. Or he wrote it in case he decided to go through with it. When people become suicidal they obsess about it for days, months even. I doubt he would go somewhere to think about all of it and not realize that if he decided to do it, he probably had a small window in which to accomplish it before losing his nerve.

But I'll go with hydrophiliac zombie Druitt if you like. Lends a bit of a George Romero flair to the tale.

[Mayerling]

Purely out of interest, does anyone have an idea of how many suicides or suspected suicides were fished out of The Thames in an average year during the LVP?

Graham

Hi Graham,

I just noted this question you posed. I have no statistics for you, but the finding of drowning/suicide victims in the Thames was an old story in 1888.
Dickens' last complete novel, OUR MUTUAL FRIEND, has a plot that begins with the discovery of a drowned man, supposedly John Harman (the heir to a fortune). And I know of at least two short stories in the period 1890 - 1891 that dealt with somebody drowing in the Thames.

Jeff

[Errata]

Hi Graham,

I just noted this question you posed. I have no statistics for you, but the finding of drowning/suicide victims in the Thames was an old story in 1888.
Dickens' last complete novel, OUR MUTUAL FRIEND, has a plot that begins with the discovery of a drowned man, supposedly John Harman (the heir to a fortune). And I know of at least two short stories in the period 1890 - 1891 that dealt with somebody drowing in the Thames.

Jeff

I'm not even sure there could be accurate statistics. Police weren't typically called to deaths unless foul play was suspected. And most bodies would be found by the fishing vessels in the Thames. It seems likely that most floaters would get picked up by a hospital dead cart and buried pretty quickly if they didn't have anything identifying on them. And the poor tended not to. And identifying a body thats been in the water for a few weeks on sight alone is singularly challenging. All of which begs a vital question.

Who for the love of god would want to eat fish out of the Thames?

[Roma]

Perhaps fishes from the Thames were more eatable at that time...

[Mayerling]

A very undemanding fish gourmet.

[Roma]

Don't know many things about fish... But we do eat fishes from the sea, and the Thames is next to the sea, no ? (ok, ok, I stop there, I'm saying anything !!)

But, could Montague swim at least ?... I mean, he loved sport and it would be strange that he never learnt how to swim...

[TTaylor]

I find Druitt's death suspicious, because he made a journey to that place - near the Harry Wilson's house, 'The Osiers', where a group of upper class men met for private recreation. He probably went there to get help, amid the crisis of being dismissed from his job.

If he wanted to commit suicide, that was an odd place to choose. If he wanted to link up with men of his own type, close to Prince Eddy, then it was ideal. But if they decided to shut him up - then the river was close by.

[Pcdunn]

Curious

I find Druitt's death suspicious, because he made a journey to that place - near the Harry Wilson's house, 'The Osiers', where a group of upper class men met for private recreation. He probably went there to get help, amid the crisis of being dismissed from his job.

If he wanted to commit suicide, that was an odd place to choose. If he wanted to link up with men of his own type, close to Prince Eddy, then it was ideal. But if they decided to shut him up - then the river was close by.

I'll bite, cadet: Shut Monty up about what?

[TTaylor]

But, could Montague swim at least ?... I mean, he loved sport and it would be strange that he never learnt how to swim...

Apparently the school where he taught had a swimming pool, so one of the authors who wrote about Druitt posited that he could swim - and stated that therefore it was unusual for a swimmer to choose drowning as a means of suicide. However - a swift flowing river can drown even a good swimmer - tragic events like that happen all the time.

[TTaylor]

I'll bite, cadet: Shut Monty up about what?

About whatever "trouble" he was in - which got him dismissed from the school - and how his troubles might link him to those men at The Osiers house. It is fact that Druitt was linked to Prince Eddy, and from there to the all male fraternity around Harry Wilson and the Cleveland St affair in the East End is a short step.

These are some suggestions, and there could be many other reasons why people who knew Druitt might think it was safer if he were quietly dead.

[David Andersen]

'The Osiers' Harry Wisons house may not have been his destination. I contend that he visited the Manor House Asylum in nearby Chiswick Lane. He knew the owners of the Asylum, Dr Tuke and his two brothers, who were at Oxford University at the same time as Druitt, and, like Druitt, were Cricketing fanatics. Druitts Mother eventually died at the Manor House Asylum. There may however be connections with the Osiers and Harry Wilson. Contemporary maps show a footpath leading from the rear of 'The Osiers' right up to the front entrance of the asylum 300 yards away.
Furthermore Harry Wilsons good friend John Lonsdale had shared a house with Montagues cousin Charles in Wimborne during 1887.

[Storm Teacup]

Yes, it seems to be a more logical assessment after studying the evidence at hand and the inconsistencies surrounding his alleged suicide that he was murdered. Possibly either knocked unconscious, drugged or even killed *before* having his body weighed down with stones and dumped in the river.

[GUT]

Yes, it seems to be a more logical assessment after studying the evidence at hand and the inconsistencies surrounding his alleged suicide that he was murdered. Possibly either knocked unconscious, drugged or even killed *before* having his body weighed down with stones and dumped in the river.

Why kill him?

[John Wheat]

Why kill him?

Because he was Jack

[John Wheat]

Because he was Jack

Because homosexual's are always committing murders against women that have a sexual element to them.