Where did Druitt enter the Thames?

[Chris Scott]

This is one aspect of the Druitt suicide that has long intrigued me and one on which I have not seen much detailed discussion
Of course, the great unknown is the exact date when Druitt's body entered the Thames - some favour 30 November and others nearer the 4 December, one week before his disappearance was reported to his brother
Mcnaghten writes of Druitt:
"whose body (which was said to have been upwards of a month in the water) was found in the Thames on 31st December"
I know very little of tides and their effects - only that the Thames is tidal up to, I believe, Teddington.
My question really is this. What is the most likely place where Druitt would have thrown himself into the Thames? The known places in London that had some connection for Druitt - Blackheath and King's Bench Walk - are well to the east and south of the place where his body was found. And his mother had not yet, by the time of his death, been moved to the asylum at Chiswick and I know of no associations that that area of London had for MJD.
Is it feasible that had MJD thrown himself into the Thames in the Chiswick area that it would have stayed in the same area for about a month or would movements of the water made that impossible?
Had MJD taken his life in the river near, say, Blackheath, would it have been possible for the tides to actually move his body miles to the west to where it was found, that is upstream?
These may boil down to technical questions about which I know nothing but I would be very interested to hear folks' opinions as to the most likely place where Druitt's suicide would have taken place and why his body was found at Chiswick
Chris

I found this page useful:

http://www.the-river-thames.co.uk/weather.htm

[aspallek]

Hi Chris,

This question has been debated some but, as you say, not thoroughly. Lets break it down into two questions: (1) date and (2) location. The key to both of these is the rail ticket found on his body.

(1) When his body was found Druitt on him had the return portion of a rail ticket between Charing Cross and Hammersmith dated December 1. Therefore, December 1 is the earliest possible date of his suicide because he was alive on that day to purchase the ticket. Some have conjectured that Druitt committed suicide on December 4 because a probate record lists this date as when he was last seen alive and this is the death date on his tombstone also. This is certainly possible. However, I believe this date is an inference from the inquest testimony of Montague's brother William in which he says that a friend informed him on Dec 11 that Montague had not been seen in his chambers for more then a week. Subtracting a week from Dec 11 produced the Dec 4 date. I find it unlikely that Druitt traveled to Hammersmith, which is near where his body was found, and stayed there 4 days before killing himself.

(2) Since Druitt bought a return ticket for Hammersmith and apparently used the first portion but not the second (return) half, we must conjecture that he traveled to Hammersmith. The Hammersmith station on the Metropolitan (today's District) Line is only a few minutes walk from where Druitt's body was found at Chiswick. From this is deduce it is likely the Montague entered the water near to where his body was found. Yes, the Thames is tidal and yest there is a strong current. However, while submerged the body likely stayed relatively put. Once it surfaced, it could have floated a considerable distance and the heavy fog of Dec 31 might have allowed it to do so unnoticed, but again the evidence of his traveling to Hammersmith argues against this. The question remains unanswered of course as to why Montague went to Hammersmith.

I think the most likely scenario is that Druitt traveled from Blackheath to Hammersmith the morning of Saturday Dec 1 in search of something. Perhaps he was applying for a position at one of the many fine schools in that area. But then the note left at Blackheath suggests his intention was suicide all along.

Indeed, the Hammersmith rail station on December 1 is the last place and time we can place Druitt alive with reasonable certainty.

[Mike Covell]

I am aware that records exsist in certain archival centers that show weather, and celestial matters, but is it also possible that there are records available in the London area showing tidal patterns?

Other than the website Chris Scott's points us to.

Perhaps careful studying of these, if they exsist, will give us an idea as to his location when he entered the water.

Just an idea.

[Sam Flynn]

Don't know if this helps, but...

Here's a rough "map" of the Thames, showing some landmarks. The approximate location where Druitt's body was found in the river is indicated by the green "X" to the left, and Blackheath (just south of Deptford and Greenwich) in the green circle on the right.



The scale is only meant as a guide, but hopefully it's not too far off.

[Roy Corduroy]

Thanks for that map, Sam. It is very helpful.

Here is an 1897 map showing how near a "Hammersmith Station" was to Chiswick pier at that time. Look for the word Vicarige on the river and that is very close to the Shipbuilding Works which would be on the left of it.

http://archivemaps.com/mapco/stanford/stan43.htm

It seems that he went in the water more or less where he was found. It all points to that. But no expert I on the Thames. Nor on railway lines and stations. Chiswick may have had a family connection. They could have vacationed there. It was something of a riverside resort in the 1800's. He could have played cricket there.

Roy

[aspallek]

Actually, Roy, this is not the Hammersmith station Druitt traveled to but it is close and the confusion is understandable. We know which station he traveled to because we know which rail line the ticket was issued on. The only rail line that ran between Charing Cross and Hammersmith in 1888 was the Metropolitan District (today's District Line of the LU). It used, and still uses, the Hammersmith station here (and note the proximity to St. Paul's school):

http://archivemaps.com/mapco/stanford/stan45.htm

This is where we can last place Montague Druitt alive some time on December 1. The confusion arises because today's "Metropolitan" underground line uses the station you identified.

As to the movement of the corpse, while it is true that tidal forces could have forced it upstream some, I must believe the Thames' strong current would overcome this and that his body would be found downstream from or at the approximate location of where he entered the water. This is particularly so since the weather on the Thames on Dec. 31 was very foggy, halting traffic, and giving an opportunity for a floating body to travel a great distance unnoticed. Could Montague have entered at Barnes or Kew or even Richmond? Theoretically yes. However, we must remember the rail ticket. Would it make sense for Druitt to travel to Hammersmith and the go further up the Thames only to have his body come to rest back in the Hammersmith area? I think the more logical explanation is that Druitt traveled to Hammersmith for an unknown reason and walk to the Thames at Chiswick were he took his life. Perhaps the body became entrapped in the works at Thorneycrofts and thus was discovered at the approximate location where it entered the water. This is not conclusive but it makes the most sense to me.

BTW -- peruse the other segments of this fine map and notice that Ravenscourt Park and Turnham Green stations are closer to where Druitts body was found. Therefore, had Druitt intended to make the area near Thorneycrofts his ultimate destination it is unlikely he would have bought a ticket to Hammersmith. IMO he must have been searching for something or someone near Hammermisth.

[aspallek]

Furthermore, if you look at this map segment:

http://archivemaps.com/mapco/stanford/stan42.htm

on the right hand side you will see St. Nicholas Church. This is yards from where Druitt's body was found. Now follow the map toward the top and just above the large "k" of "[Chis]wick" you will see "Manor Ho." This the Manor House Asylum operated by the Tukes, where Druitt's mother would die a year and a half or so later. (Later the Tukes would move their asylum to Chiswick House, which can also be seen in this map segment).

[Sam Flynn]

It seems that he went in the water more or less where he was found.

I'd go along with that, Roy.

[Mike Covell]

I'd go along with that, Roy.

I agree. I studied water courses and erosion for several years on things such as rocks, and a river the size of the Thames would have caused a lot of damage to a body.

Coincidently Sam, whilst carrying out Research in Wales, I was arrested for "Indecent Exposure"!!

[Chris Scott]

Many thanks for the feedback and the info
One thought struck me:
It was in July 1888 that Ann Druitt was placed in an asylum, the Brook Asylum, Clapton, London. It was not until May 1890 that she was moved to Chiswick.
This raises in my mind one question and one observation
The question is: Why was she placed in an asylum so far from the family in Wimborne?
The observation is:
As MJD was the closest family member, geographically, the onus would probably have fallen on him to be ensure his mother's welfare and visit her when possible
With this in mind is it possible that the family and/or Montague were already considering moving Ann to the Chiswick asylum and Montage went there to speak to the authorities about just such a move? Could it be that being forced to concentrate on his mother's mental problems accentuated in his mind his own mental deterioration?
All speculation, I know! But interesting, I hope

[Robert]

Chris, if his mother's mental condition wasn't all that bad in 88, she may have been taken on a day trip to Chiswick to see how she liked the establishment. If while she was there she showed signs of severe mental problems, one can understand its depressing effect on Druitt.

[aspallek]

Actually, Chris, it begs another question in my mind. It is possible that the Druitts already had some relationship with Tuke in 1888 and thus Montague was possibly seeking some sort of mental health treatment there. Why Ann was not placed there until later I don't know. A powerful argument against this, however, is that the closest station to Manor House would be Turnham Green. Why then would Montague buy a ticket to Hammersmith instead? This is a fairly powerful argument in my mind.

[Suzi]

Hmmm the ticket is interesting- maybe he didn't buy it though and it was put in his pocket prior to 'drowning'

[Sam Flynn]

Hello Andy,

Actually, Chris, it begs another question in my mind. It is possible that the Druitts already had some relationship with Tuke in 1888 and thus Montague was possibly seeking some sort of mental health treatment there. Why Ann was not placed there until later I don't know. A powerful argument against this, however, is that the closest station to Manor House would be Turnham Green. Why then would Montague buy a ticket to Hammersmith instead?

Interesting food for thought. This is a snippet from from the Wikipedia entry for Turnham Green:

"Turnham Green is a London Underground station in Chiswick in west London. The station is served by the District and Piccadilly Lines although Piccadilly Lines trains normally only stop at the station at the beginning and end of the day, running through non-stop at other times. To the east, District Line trains stop at Stamford Brook and Piccadilly Line trains stop at Hammersmith."

I have no idea whether that held true back in Druitt's day, by the way. If it did, then the closest one could have got to Manor House asylum, if one arrived from the east, would have been to get off at Hammersmith. The asylum was just over a mile's walk from there, as far as I can tell.

[aspallek]

Hi Gareth,

I'm quite sure this scheduling is recent. At any rate, Ravenscourt Park would still have been closer to Manor House than Hammersmith would have been (Stamford Brook had not yet been built). Furthermore, this skipping of Turnham Green appears to apply only to the Piccadilly Line which was not in existence yet in 1888. Druitt would have traveled on the Metropolitan District Railway (today's District Line).

No matter how I slice it it really makes no sense for Montague to buy a ticket to Hammersmith if his destination was Manor House or the area where his body was found. I believe he must have had business at Hammersmith first.