John Henry Lonsdale

[Robert]

7th January 2007, 01:48 PM
Andy, I am currently working in Stamford CT and only get back to the UK at weekend but I will check re photos. I do know that there are portraits of John and Kitty which Ann, my aunt inherited so I believe one of her sons now have them. I will contact them and see if I can get photos. As regards documents I am afraid my mother does not have any but again I will check with my cousins.
Jane

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aspallek28th March 2007, 12:02 AM
Lonsdale's grave at Fontmell Magna, Dorset:

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aspallek28th March 2007, 12:06 AM
Lonsdale's Parish, St. Andrew's, at Fonmell Magna:

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aspallek28th March 2007, 12:13 AM
Lonsdale's Parish (I believe) in Iwerne Courtney (or Shroton), Dorset. He was there from 1894-1900 just before moving on to neighboring Fontmell Magna. Sorry about the quality -- taken form a moving bus window:

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davida12th May 2007, 11:18 PM
Hi Andy et al,
I found this reference to a J.H. Londsdale. It is from the London Business Directory for 1884.
It shows JH as having chambers at 3 Harcourt Bldgs - Temple.
Best Wishes
David

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aspallek13th May 2007, 12:08 AM
Hi David,

Thanks but I think the individual you found was James H. Lonsdale. I spotted that listing once, too. I don't know if he is a relative of John H. Lonsdale. I suspect he is.

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aspallek22nd May 2007, 06:52 PM
5 Eliot Cottages, Blackheath home of John Henry Lonsdale. 30 seconds' walk from 9 Eliot Place, where Montague John Druitt lived and worked at George Valentines school. Photographs copyright Andrew J. Spallek, 2007.

Eliot Cottages:

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/3029/1000747mx0.jpg

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5711/1000748eu6.jpg

No. 5:

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/7751/1000753yr6.jpg

From in front of no. 5 looking toward Valentine's school, which would be just beyond the third house on the left side of the photo:

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6427/1000752vx5.jpg

Eliot Cottages on the right and the Hare and Billet on the left:

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/5482/1000751pr7.jpg

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aspallek5th June 2007, 04:27 AM
Still no picture of John Henry Lonsdale but here is his grandfather, Bishop John Lonsdale of Litchfield:

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7896/grandpalonsdalebx8.jpg

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aspallek20th June 2007, 09:58 PM
Another Lonsdale tidbit:

From http://www.southernlife.org.uk/dorse...olytrinity.htm, concerning Holy Trinity in West Lulworth:

"Stained-Glass Windows...
The south window and brass plate near the pulpit recall the Rev. John Henry Lonsdale. He was a keen fisherman, a friend of Alfred Fripp since their student days, and frequently officiated in the Church. He loved Lulworth and the little sailing ships
which unloaded coal for the Castle and village at the old store in the Cove. Sometimes their anchors cut adrift and caused serious damage to the fishermen's
nets, which at that time were hauled in from the mouth of the Cove to under Bindon Hill by eight men. This delightful window, and also payments for divers
from Weymouth to remove anchors and other offending obstacles, were given by relatives and friends of this much-loved Dorset parson."

Sir Alfred Fripp was a surgeon at Guy's Hospital and Surgeon in Ordinary to Edward VII and George V. He was the Son of the artist Alfred Fripp.

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johnr21st June 2007, 12:58 PM
Andrew,
Did J.H. Lonsdale play cricket?
Because somewhere in my mind I recall Montague Druitt having some connection, either playing against, or for, of having a relative playing for, the
Lulworth Lobsters.
JOHN RUFFELS.

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robert21st June 2007, 01:32 PM
John, Trinity College have no record of his playing cricket. But he did do athletics.

Robert

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aspallek21st June 2007, 03:58 PM
Hi John,

Actually, it was you that mentioned the Lulworth Lobsters in connection to Lonsdale: http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4922/16294.html . I think it might have been mentioned in Leighton but I'm not sure. At the time I read Leighton I was not yet so fascinated with Lonsdale's life. If it doesn't come from Leighton, I myself would like to know the source of this information. I'm not sure where Lulworth is but if it is near Weymouth, it is not particularly close to Lonsdale's parishes in the North of Dorset.

I would be very much surprised if Lonsdale did not play cricket, as avid a sportsman as he was.

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davida22nd June 2007, 12:10 PM
Andy
Lulworth Cove is some distance west of Weymouth. There is an East Lulworth and a West Lulworth. Among other things it boast of having the smallest house in the UK.
Best Wishes
David

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halomanuk22nd June 2007, 12:18 PM
Talking of small has anyone seen the UK's smallest pub ?

Here it is,apparantly King Charles II stopped there and asked for an ale.

The blacksmith who owned it said he didnt have a license so the king granted it to him there and then !!

It is in Dorset.http://www.pickatrail.com/venus/1/smallest_pub.jpg (http://forum.casebook.org/)

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[Robert]

22nd June 2007, 12:45 PM
Luckily it wasn't called The King's Head.

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halomanuk22nd June 2007, 01:29 PM
That would be one dead blacksmith....

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robert22nd June 2007, 04:12 PM
Charles II liked a good head on his beer.

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Graham22nd June 2007, 04:25 PM
Going off-thread, but I thought the smallest pub in the UK was in Bury St Edmunds??

Cheers,

Graham.

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halomanuk22nd June 2007, 04:27 PM
Graham,

you better get your extra-large measuring tape and have a check..

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Graham22nd June 2007, 04:41 PM
Graham,

you better get your extra-large measuring tape and have a check..


Nah, I'd just see which one I could drink dry in the shortest time...

Cheers!!!

Graham

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halomanuk22nd June 2007, 04:43 PM
haha touche Graham,

probably only take about 5 mins - by the looks of it,there is only room
for about 3 half pint glasses in the whole pub !!

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robert22nd June 2007, 04:56 PM
If Lonsdale did play cricket - perhaps for his school - then with his 440 yards prowess the odds would marginally favour a fast bowler, I suppose.

Robert

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davida22nd June 2007, 11:57 PM
Hi Andy
Sorry I misled you re Lulworth. It is actually about ten miles EAST of Weymouth - not too far from Bournemouth or Wimborne.
Best Wishes
David

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aspallek23rd June 2007, 05:38 PM
No problem, David. I see it is not too far from Poole, which I visited on the Dorset portion of my trip last March. Dorset is such a lovely place that I must spend more time there on a future visit.

Anyway, West Lulworth is 27 miles almost due South of Fontmell Magna, which was Lonsdale's last parish.

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Trevor24th June 2007, 10:05 PM
J H Lonsdale did play Cricket: for Shroton Cricket Club in 1895. He was appointed Captain on 25 April 1895 during his tenure as the Parish Rector. I was fascinated to read the speculation regarding his links to Druitt!

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robert24th June 2007, 11:07 PM
Hi Trevor and welcome. Any info on JH, cricketing or otherwise, would be much appreciated.

Robert

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aspallek25th June 2007, 03:22 PM
J H Lonsdale did play Cricket: for Shroton Cricket Club in 1895. He was appointed Captain on 25 April 1895 during his tenure as the Parish Rector. I was fascinated to read the speculation regarding his links to Druitt!

Thanks, Trevor, and welcome. I'd be interested to know your source and what connection, if any, you have to Lonsdale.

Best regards,

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Trevor25th June 2007, 04:53 PM
JHL was the captain of Shroton Cricket CLub and the Chairman of the Shroton Mens Recreation Club, a society of bored Gentlefolk entertaining themselves in a rural community at the turn of the Century. They played cards, read books, played Cricket and organised billiards and boxing evenings. As an individual he was clearly well driven, He organised the building of the Parish Room, Shroton's First Village Hall and organised payment of half wages for the land workers if they took a day off work to play Cricket.
I have his minute notes for the Recreation Club; of which he was also secretary from 22/10/1894 to his last entry before his untimely death in 1901. He insigated the ordering of the London Illustrated News for the Recreation Club so he clearly maintained his links with his early days in London.

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aspallek25th June 2007, 05:02 PM
That's extremely interesting, Trevor. Only, Lonsdale died in February of 1903. Please see my PM.

Warmest Regards,

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Trevor25th June 2007, 05:20 PM
Sorry; I may be the victim of someones poor english, who refers to the Late Rector, Rev J H Lonsdale in the minutes of 14th March 1901! Maybe he meant he left the parish and moved up the road 3 miles to Fontmell Magna!!

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aspallek25th June 2007, 05:30 PM
One would think that Lonsdale would have also played cricket in Blackheath or for the MCC. Unless, perhaps, he simply was not that skilled. He obviously can a keen interest in the game, which further suggests that he probably knew Montague Druitt well.

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Trevor25th June 2007, 05:47 PM
Would the MCC have allowed a lawyer to play! Didn't they have standards in those days!!

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aspallek25th June 2007, 06:21 PM
Well, the Blackheath MCC did allow Druitt in! One would strongly suspect Lonsdale to have participated, if he were skilled enough. Clearly, he would have had the interest.

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robert25th June 2007, 06:26 PM
Trevor, do you know whether Lonsdale was a batsman, bowler etc?

Robert

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Trevor25th June 2007, 07:29 PM
Sorry, Don't have scorebook that old! I dont recall any references in his minutes,

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davida25th June 2007, 09:05 PM
Hello All,

Score cards show that Montague Druitt appears to have been more successful as a bowler than as a batsman. He was described, by Cullen, as the opening bowler for his Oxford University team.
Best Wishes
David

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robert25th June 2007, 10:54 PM
David, that would suggest a fast bowler. Do you know of any stumpings off Monty's bowling? That would suggest a spinner.

Robert

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davida26th June 2007, 04:01 PM
Hello Robert,
I am afraid that I wouldn,t know a spinner from a spanner. So you've got me stumped there.
David

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chris11th July 2007, 09:57 PM
Hi

[Robert]

11th July 2007, 09:57 PM
Hi
Andy S asked me to post census details of Lonsdale:

John Henry Lonsdale
1861:
4 Chester Place, St Pancras
head: John G Lonsdale aged 43 born St Margarets Westminster - Clergyman, Canon of Lichfield
Wife: Sarah M Lonsdale aged 38 born Hackney
Children:
Lucy M aged 14 born Harefield, Staffs
Amy J aged 12 born St Pancras
Letitia aged 7 born St Pancras
John H aged 5 born St Pancras
Annie aged 4 born St Pancras

1871:
The Close, Lichfield, Staffs.
Head: John G Lonsdale aged 53 born Westminster - Canon & Vicar St Marys Lichfield
Wife: Sarah M Lonsdale aged 48 born Hamford Hill
Children:
Lucy M aged 24
Amy J aged 22
Sophia ahed 17
John H aged 15
Annie aged 14
All born in St Pancras
Governess:
Flossuline Linde aged 27 born Bavaria - Luther Pastor's daughter
1881:
56 Oxford Terrace, St John, London
Head: Henry Priestley aged 38 born Grimsby - Retired Bengal Civil Service
Wife: Lucy Priestley aged 31 born Manchester
Child:
Mary aged 5 months born St George Hanover Square
Lodger:
John H Lonsdale aged 25 born St Pancras - Law Student B.A.
Marriage:
Quarter 4 (Oct - Dec) 1888
Wimborne Dorset
John Henry Lonsdale married Katherine Carr Glyn
1891:
Wall Vicarage, Wall, Staffs.
Head: John H Lonsdale aged 35 born St Pancras - Clerk in Holy Orders
Wife: Katharine C Lonsdale aged 23 born Newbury, Dublin, Ireland
Children:
John C J aged 1 born Weare, Somerset

1901:
Rectory Corrage, Parsonage Street, Fontmell Magma, Dorset
Head: John Henry Lonsdale aged 45 born St Pancras - Clergyman, Church of England
Wife: Katherine Lonsdale aged 33 born Ireland
Children:
Arthur Carr G aged 9 born Wall, Staffs.
Katherine G M aged 5 born Swerne Courtney, Dorset

Death:
1903 Quarter 1
Shaftesbury Dorset
Aged 47

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aspallek11th July 2007, 10:09 PM
Thanks, Chris, for this. I wonder what happened to the first son, John Claude Jardine Lonsdale between 1891 and 1901 since he's no longer there with the family and would have been only 11 years old.

BTW, the birthplace for Lonsdale's daughter, Katherine Granville Martineau Lonsdale should be Iwerne Courney (i.e. Shroton), Dorset.

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chris11th July 2007, 10:23 PM
Hi Andy
in 1901 there is a John Lonsdale aged 11 listed as a pupil at Stubbington House School, Crofton, Hampshire. The one diference is that this boy is listed as born in Devon.
The head of the school in 1901 was Montagu Henry Foster aged 58

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aspallek11th July 2007, 10:35 PM
That's probably him, Chris. I'm pretty sure he lived to adulthood. I don't have any explanation for the reference to Devon, however.

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robert12th July 2007, 01:21 PM
A bit about JCJL : in 1915 he was promoted to second lieutenant. He was in 3rd battalion Dorset regiment.

In the 20s and 30s there are two mentions of his acting as a liquidator. So if this Lonsdale became a priest, he left it exceedingly late to do it.

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aspallek12th July 2007, 02:41 PM
Thank, Robert. I believe the younger son, Arthur Carr Lonsdale, had a military career or at least also saw military service.

Do you happen to know if I am correct in that John Claude Jardine Lonsdale was known as "Claude"?

BTW -- The "Jardine" comes from the prominent family of David Jardine, the barrister who was John Henry Lonsdale's maternal grandfather.

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robert12th July 2007, 04:09 PM
Hi Andy

That info was from the London Gazette where he was called by his full name, so I can't say about Claude.

Robert

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robert12th July 2007, 06:57 PM
A few more Lonsdale bits, all from 1936.

Oct 27th.

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robert12th July 2007, 07:00 PM
May 1st 36

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robert12th July 2007, 07:12 PM
June 17th 36

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aspallek12th July 2007, 07:44 PM
Thanks again, Robert. Sophia was the sister of John Henry Lonsdale and was actually the person who signed the register of his death.

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aspallek24th July 2007, 01:12 AM
I have managed to procure the use of a copy of the Memoirs of Sophia Lonsdale, compiled and edited by her cousin Violet Martineau. Sophia was the sister of John Henry Lonsdale and signed the register of his death.

Sophy's brother "Jack" does not feature prominently in this book but what is there is touching. Jack was send off to boarding school at the tender age of 7 and he hated it, one running away and returning home where he faced very severe punishment from his father, the Rev. John Gylby Lonsdale.

Then there is an excerpt from a letter Sophy sent from Fontmell Rectory where she was apparently attending to her ill brother to Violet on February 18, 1903, two days following the untimely death of John Henry:

"It is a sad, terrible blow. The greatest that could have befallen us. He has made me his children's guardian....* The grief all round is very great, for he was a parson of the old-fashioned sort, always amongst his people, and playing cricket with the boys (the last thing he did was to umpire a football match all Saturday afternoon, and when his arm was very painful**). The farmers loved him; he thoroughly understood them and the village people. One farmer came 3 miles 3 times in one day to ask how he was. He preached good plain sermons in good Saxon English, with not a hard word in them and he was a real Protestant. He lived and died like a Christian and a gentleman. This place looks so beautiful, the avenue full of snowdrops and crocuses he planted (he loved his garden) and everything so bright and cheerful."
*-Sophia Lonsdale believed that a widow should not raise up her own children but should leave them to the charge of the parish.
**-Lonsdale died of an infected wound in the elbow, per his death certificate. He was 47. "Saturday" would presumably been February 14, two days before his death and Valentine's Day.

Sophia goes on to tell how the death of "Jack" was the essential cause of their mother's death as she never recovered emotionally from the blow.

Also, there is mention in the book that the Lonsdale family used to holiday at Swanage when she and Jack were young. This may explain Lonsdale's fondness for Dorset and his apparent love of the sea at Lulworth.

More later. The book is sparsely indexed, so I may discover a few more gems.

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robert

[Robert]

24th July 2007, 12:28 PM
"*-Sophia Lonsdale believed that a widow should not raise up her own children but should leave them to the charge of the parish."

Puzzled by this, Andy.

Robert

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aspallek24th July 2007, 03:22 PM
"*-Sophia Lonsdale believed that a widow should not raise up her own children but should leave them to the charge of the parish."

Puzzled by this, Andy.

It does sound strange but it was apparently just the conventional thinking of the time. It was thought that a widow would now have to become the breadwinner of the family and would thus not have ample time to devote to raising children. As part of the "genteel" class, Sophia would not have understood that a working class mother would have a strong desire to keep her family in close proximity. Wealthy families like the Lonsdales would send their boys off to boarding schools at a young age and were used to them not being around. Jack was sent off to school at age 7. Not so with working class and poor families.

In the case of the Lonsdale family, it is strange. Jack's widow, Katharine (Apparently that is the correct spelling since it appears thus in Sophia's memoirs. I have also seen it spelled in the conventional way), was a woman of comfortable means from a wealthy Dorset family herself. She would have had ample means to care for her children. Katharine returned to the Wimborne area and settled in Colehill following Jack's death.

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robert24th July 2007, 03:59 PM
Thanks Andy.Yes, the wealthy people do seem to have had rather distant relationships with their children. Even as late as the twentieth century, stories for children were being written in which the main characters hardly ever seem to have seen their parents,the action taking place in between school terms, when they would all go off together and "have adventures."

Robert

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aspallek28th July 2007, 05:45 PM
I should mention that the nickname "Jack" by which John Henry Lonsdale was known to his family I see as totally unrelated to "Jack the Ripper." It's just a coincidence. Lonsdale is not a suspect for JtR.

That being said, I do think a couple of revelations in Sophia's memoirs are rather interesting. Lonsdale did come from a very authoritarian home and seemed perhaps distant from his father at least as a boy. But that was quite common in the VP. The other interesting point is that Lonsdale owned a fox-terrier named "Nipper" in the 1880's that had quite a bloody and violent streak. Sophia does tell another interesting story about "Nipper" in this chapter as she relates a period of a few months in 1884 when her family lived in London. Jack had just been called to the bar and and she refers to his chambers "at the Temple." This is consistent with his known chambers at no. 1 King's Bench Walk. Sophia's implication is that Jack lived at his chambers at that time but Sophia then tells a story of how Nipper became confused when Jack "changed his rooms" and Nipper returned "in vain" to the Temple. This would certainly be consistent with a change of residence to Blackheath during the time period in which Druitt was resident there. Incidentally, Nipper ended up in the care of an old fisherman and his wife in Lulworth which confirms what we know of Lonsdale's attraction to that area of Dorset.

So there is perhaps a measure of corroboration in Sophia's memoirs.

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aspallek14th August 2007, 06:48 AM
Sophia Lonsdale, sister of Rev. John Henry Lonsdale:

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aspallek23rd August 2007, 03:13 AM
This tombstone is in the churchyard at Iwerne Courtney, Dorset, where Lonsdale served from 1894-1900. Wasn't Sarah Harvey a relative of Montague Druitt? Coincidence?

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8240/stonemh1.jpg

SACRED TO THE MEMORY OFSARAH HARVEY DIED NOV 11TH 1865AGED 59 YEARS~~
... ~~ALSO MARIA ETHELENDA HARVEY DAUGHTER OF THE ABOVE DIED AUGUST 1ST 1853AGED 18 YEARS~~ .
.. ~~ALSO SARAH ISABELLA OSMOND DAUGHTER OF THE ABOVE DIED MARCH 17TH 1855AGED 28 YEARS~~
... ~~THE LORD GAVE AND THE LORD HATH TAKEN AWAY BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD

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Joanna23rd August 2007, 04:44 PM
Hi Andy,

I've been meaning to reply to this thread for awhile about the information you posted from Sophia Lonsdale's biography -which I found very interesting. Although I really don't have anything factual to add there but I can see how a friendship could have formed between Druitt and Lonsdale due to shared faith and interests (sport). I also had to raise an eyebrow at the revelation that Lonsdale's nickname was 'Jack' and his dog was called 'Nipper'...

However I've managed to do a little digging on the grave in Iwerne Courtney churchyard and courtesy of the Dorset OPC have found out:

The elder daugher on the gravestone, Sarah Isabella was married on 20 March 1851 at Iwerne Courtney to Richard Osmond, a labourer the son of Richard Osmond a yeoman. The record mentions that Sarah Isabella's father was one John Bennett, also a yeoman and she was born in Poole, Dorset. I found a christening record for one Sarah Isabella Bennet, christened 20 February 1828 in St James, Poole, parents John Bennet and Sarah.

However it would appear that John Bennet(t) and Sarah Harvey soon broke up and Sarah Harvey returned to Iwerne Courtney and had two further children:

John Samuel Harvey, christened on 5 April 1833 in Iwerne Courtney; and
Maria Ethelina Harvey, the second daugher on the gravestoke, christened 20 March 1836 in Iwerne Courtney. No father in mentioned in either record.

I also found a christening record in the right timeframe for a Sarah Harvey in Iwerne Courtney on 18 February 1805, parents James and Elizabeth Harvey.

Montague Druitt was indeed related to a Sarah Harvey (nee Burt) who was his maternal grandmother, however she was around a decade older than the Sarah Harvey buried in Iwerne Courtney. The Harvey surname in fact appears frequently in the Iwerne Courtney christening and marriage records online at the Dorset OPC, these Harveys could possibly be distantly related to those of Witchampton and Hemsworth but finding a link could take a lot more digging.

Hope that helps

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aspallek

[Robert]

24th August 2007, 12:43 AM
Thank you, Joanna, for clearing that one up! I suppose there were a lot of "Sarash Harveys" around. Frankly, even if it had been the Sarah who was related to the Druitts that really would not have meant anything. I just thought it was an interesting coincidence. I only was able to get a photo of the church at Iwerene Courtney from the bus I was riding as it passed by. Next trip maybe I'll alight and have a look around.

The Sophia Lonsdale book was very interesting. I didn't read every bit of it but I skimmed most all of it. There was more than I thought there would be about John Henry Lonsdale. I still would like to find out if any of his papers still exist.

It is quite evident that the Lonsdale's were a very religious family but also a family with a great sense of humor and enjoyment of life. Sort of breaks down some of the stereotypes that people often harbor with regard to the devoutly religious.

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Jane2nd November 2007, 11:14 AM
To pick up an earlier thread. Following a distinguished career in the WWi Claude took himself off to Canada where he had a pretty eventful and exciting life, eventually owning a vast amount of the land that is now Toronto. He sold up and returned to the UK at the start of the WWii when he lied about his age and previous military success and joined up as an ordinary private. He married a woman called Ena and they had one daughter Dianna and a son called John. I did not know either Ena or John but meet both Claude and Dianna when I was a child. Claude was the most wonderful and entertaining uncle who by the way, had a scratch golf handicap. Dianna, in my memory was incredibly glamorous. Claude died in the early 80s and I am afraid I no longer has any contact with Dianna.

Possibly my favourite story about Claude is from when he was a small child. On one occasion when the children had been brought down from the nursery to join a family meal for the dessert, Claude had taken a strong dislike to Edmund Becket, a visiting relation, and designer of Big Ben. When he decided that he had put up with him for quite long enough he stood up on his chair and tipped his bowl of pudding over Becket’s head.

I think I am right in remembering that John and Kitty's other son Arthur died in WWi.

Incidentally your side thread about Charles ii was not totally off the mark as both the Lonsdale and Chapman (John's Daughter's husband) can both trace their families back to Charles ii.

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aspallek2nd November 2007, 04:59 PM
Jane,

So glad you are back! Please check your PM. I have some photographs you may be interested in, some of which are posted in this thread.
Interesting story about Claude. It does sound so...well, "Lonsdale." You come from a very colorful family, and I mean that in a good way.
BTW-- Arthur Carr Glyn Lonsdale was indeed killed at Neuve Chapelle in March 1915, during the First World War.
Please do check your Private Messages via this forum as I should like to ask you a few questions as well as share some photographs.

Best Regards,

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robert2nd November 2007, 08:56 PM
Sorry to burst in with an unwholesome subject, but is this the same Lonsdale?

NORTH WALES CHRONICLE Nov 29th 1890

He was going on about his psoriasis throughout 91

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aspallek2nd November 2007, 09:34 PM
Um..well...that is the address of his legal chambers: 1 King's Bench Walk!

Funny thing is that by 1890, John Henry Lonsdale hadn't been a barrister for nearly three years and he no longer lived in London. By this time he was a clergyman serving in Wall, Staffordshire (although he had just been moved there from Weare, Somerset).

I suspect someone had just gotten hold of his name for some unscrupulous advertising. I wonder if he sued.

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aspallek30th November 2007, 07:02 AM
Another Lonsdale tidbit:

From http://www.southernlife.org.uk/dorse...olytrinity.htm, concerning Holy Trinity in West Lulworth:

"Stained-Glass Windows...
The south window and brass plate near the pulpit recall the Rev. John Henry Lonsdale. He was a keen fisherman, a friend of Alfred Fripp since their student days, and frequently officiated in the Church. He loved Lulworth and the little sailing ships
which unloaded coal for the Castle and village at the old store in the Cove. Sometimes their anchors cut adrift and caused serious damage to the fishermen's
nets, which at that time were hauled in from the mouth of the Cove to under Bindon Hill by eight men. This delightful window, and also payments for divers
from Weymouth to remove anchors and other offending obstacles, were given by relatives and friends of this much-loved Dorset parson."

Sir Alfred Fripp was a surgeon at Guy's Hospital and Surgeon in Ordinary to Edward VII and George V. He was the Son of the artist Alfred Fripp.

Going back to this post of mine from many months ago, I never made the connection but I wonder if guitarist Robert Fripp (King Crimson) was a descendant of Alfred Fripp. King Crimson was originally a Bournemouth band and Robert was actually born at Wimborne Minster in 1946. Do you suppose Robert Fripp's granddad knew the identity of Jack the Ripper? Maybe that explains their musical style.

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aspallek31st December 2007, 11:14 PM
Sorry to burst in with an unwholesome subject, but is this the same Lonsdale?

NORTH WALES CHRONICLE Nov 29th 1890

He was going on about his psoriasis throughout 91

Yes, I noticed this, too. It is interesting in that Lonsdale was a very religious and ethical man. He would certainly not lend his name to advertise a product unless what he was saying were true. Being a barrister, I would presume that he would not stand for someone using his name fraudulently. I would presume then that he did suffer from the malady. This may be one reason why photographs of the family seem to be nearly non-existent.

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robert31st December 2007, 11:30 PM
Hi Andy

Also, it would have been very impudent for someone to both use his name without his permission and add that the psoriasis was hereditary, conjuring up generations of scaly Lonsdales.

Robert

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robert1st January 2008, 12:35 PM
Andy, I don't know whether Lonsdale's dad suffered psoriasis, but he seems to have had dandruff problems. He's quoted as saying that "Vigoro" helps clear scurf!

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aspallek

[Robert]

1st January 2008, 08:06 PM
Robert,

Excuse me? Lonsdale's dad, John Gylby Lonsdale? Are you serious?

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robert1st January 2008, 09:21 PM
Absolutely, Andy. He's supplying a testimonial (presumably used with his permission) rather than actually advertising the stuff, but it's another JTR haircare item to go with George Sims's "Tatcho" hair restorer.

MYRA'S JOURNAL OCT 1st 1898

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aspallek1st January 2008, 11:28 PM
Well, all I can say is that's bizzare. The only thing I can think of is that some family frend of the Lonsdale's sold the product or else some unscrupulous businessman latched onto their name and the Lonsdale's merely ignored it.

Hard to believe that such a principled family would lend their name to a "snake oil" that "re-grows" hair.

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robert1st January 2008, 11:40 PM
Bit odd, isn't it, Andy.....unless it actually worked. :afro: :rainfro:

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aspallek2nd January 2008, 12:05 AM
If would appear that Sir Alfred Fripp could have made use of some Vigoro.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/2475/alfredfrippjz3.jpg

Fripp and Lonsdale were apparently good friends. Fripp was Surgeon in Ordinary to Edward VII and George V. More on him at http://web.ukonline.co.uk/bean95/ft/...sir-alfred.htm

It appears there may be a family connection with guitarist Robert Fripp of Bournemouth band King Crimson. Robert Fripp was born at Wimborne Minster.

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/bean95/ft/frippuk/links/index.htm

Could Robert Fripp have learned the identity of JtR from his grandfather or great-uncle? Perhaps that explains some of his music?

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robert2nd January 2008, 12:24 AM
Hi Andy

I'm ashamed to say that I'm not familiar with King Crimson, I've only heard of them. I suppose it's possible!

Robert

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aspallek2nd January 2008, 12:43 AM
Oh, Robert, how old (young) are you? Go out and find a copy of their 1969 classic "In the Court of the Crimson King." It's worth it just for the cover art. The music was very innovative. At that time the group included Greg Lake, later of Emerson, Lake, and Palmer.

BTW -- Robert Fripp's father was Arthur Fripp (may have been an auctioneer in Wimborne) and his mother was Edith Green. He had a sister Patricia. Robert was born in 1946.

Ed- Patricia Fripp is still a renouned motivation speaker. Personally, I have no use for "motivational speakers."

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/1913/inthecourtofthecrimsonkmh1.jpg

21st Century Schizoid Man

Cat's foot iron claw
Neuro-surgeons scream for more
At paranoia's poison door
Twenty first century schizoid man.

Blood rack barbed wire
Politicians' funeral pyre
Innocents raped with napalm fire
Twenty first century schizoid man.

Death seed blind man's greed
Poets' starving children bleed
Nothing he's got he really needs
Twenty first century schizoid man.

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robert2nd January 2008, 01:03 AM
Blimey! Robert Fripp's older than me.

Well, I'll do my best to catch up with them, Andy.

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aspallek2nd January 2008, 01:22 AM
ON a more serious note, this interesting tidbit about Lonsdale's pal from http://www.mara.org.uk/Jack_Ripper.htm


Just before the Ripper murders began, London society was rocked by a scandal. Number19 Cleveland Street, owned by Charles Hammond, was revealed to be a homosexual brothel which was frequented by many notable Victorian figures. It becomes clear why so many past Ripper suspects were homosexual. If you were gay and resided in London in the late 1880s, then you would have certainly visited the brothel in Cleveland Street. Prince Albert Victor, J.K. Stephens, Frank Miles and even Dr Francis Tumblety, who was arrested for gross indecency with a man during the murders, almost certainly where seen and observed by the police entering the brothel. When the Cleveland Street scandal was being investigated, the Assistant Public Prosecutor actually mentioned Prince Albert Victor as being a regular visitor. While visiting the brothel, Albert Victor contracted Gonorrhoea. Perhaps he in turn passed the disease on to J.K. Stephens? We know that a Dr Alfred Fripp prescribed drugs commonly given for the treatment of gonorrhoea, to the Duke when he was suddenly taken ill while holidaying in Scarborough, and we also know that Sir William Gull wrote in his medical papers on the 3rd October that he had informed the Prince of Wales that his son was dying of syphilis of the brain. In1892 he finally passed away.

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robert2nd January 2008, 01:29 AM
I suppose Fripp's papers haven't survived?

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aspallek2nd January 2008, 02:47 AM
Alfred's or Robert's? I haven't the foggiest.

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robert2nd January 2008, 11:40 PM
Here's a brief mention.

http://books.google.com/books?id=ckWcqzepChYC&pg=RA1-PA150&lpg=RA1-PA150&dq=papers+of+sir+alfred+fripp&source=web&ots=Vm935bjfJ2&sig=VitGQ8MS4jaZ4cLEDH-qKZw_xbA#PRA1-PA150,M1

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aspallek3rd January 2008, 12:26 AM
There is a biography of Sir Alfred Fripp written by Cecil Roberts. It's a bit pricey on ABC Books but I'm trying to get hold of a copy through my local library.

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aspallek5th January 2008, 09:52 PM
This is not intended to be self-promotion but in case anyone is interested in the details I have uncovered regarding Lonsdale and his likely associations with Montague Druitt, the Druitt family, and Macnaghten, they can be found in my article in the November 2007 edition of Ripperologist.

I just thought I would mention it since that edition has not been reviewed or discussed on the casebook.

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vBulletin v3.6.0, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

[Robert]

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:D_YHwKPRo5oJ:forum.casebook.org/archive/index.php/t-1907.html+john+henry+lonsdale+casebook&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=uk

This is the link for the cache pasted above.

[aspallek]

I wonder whether Lonsdale was the clergyman in question.

North Wales Chronicle, 3 March 1888:

[aspallek]

The elusive article at the West Sussex Record Office. It clearly confirms that John Henry Lonsdale knew Montague's cousin Charles very well indeed. The J.P., Captain Crr S. Glyn, would become Lonsdale's father-in-law some 19 months later.

THE SALISBURY AND WINCHESTER JOURNAL AND GENERAL ADVERTISER
SATURDAY MAY 14 1887

Dorsetshire

WIMBORNE
POLICE COURT, Wednesday – (Before Mr. C. J. Parke and Captain Carr S. Glyn) – William Dymott, gardener and Charles Brewer, baker, Wimborne, were charged with breaking into the dwelling house of the Rev. J. H. Lonsdale, and stealing a despatch box, containing a gold ring and papers to the value of 9l., the property of the Rev. C. Druitt, and an old brass blunderbuss, a sword, and a dagger, of the value of 10s., the property of the Rev. John H. Lonsdale. Thomas Dymott, coachman, and Jane Dymott, domestic servant, were charged with receiving these goods knowing them to have been stolen. The case created great interest, and the Court was crowded. Mr. H. Bowen appeared for Thomas, Jane, and William Dymott, and Mr. W. H. Curtis represented Brewer. Sarah Frampton, widow, said that on April 4th she was acting as housekeeper for the Rev. J. H. Lonsdale, in East Borough, Wimborne. She went to bed at about 10 o’clock on the night of the 4th, having fastened the back part of the house. Mr. Lonsdale and the Rev. C. Druitt were in the sitting room on the ground floor in the front. The front door was closed. There were two swords and a gun hanging in the hall. Towards morning she was disturbed by a noise. She stuck a light and looked out of the window. It was then twenty minutes past four. She saw nothing, and went back to bed. When she went down the stairs about six o’clock, she noticed a match which had been struck lying on the mat. The hall door was open. She went in to Mr. Druitt’s room at about twenty minutes to seven. She drew up the blind and found the window was wide open. The cloth on the table in the window was disarranged and twisted; and the flowers outside the window were trodden down. Shortly after this she went to the back door to take in the milk. The door was unbolted and unlatched. After that she saw Mr. Druitt and Mr. Lonsdale come downstairs and go out. After they had gone she missed the gun and swords in the hall. Mr. Druitt and Mr. Lonsdale returned at about ten minutes to nine, and she informed them of what had taken place. She identified a box and case that were in Mr. Druitt’s room, but she could not identify the gun and the sword produced. Mr. Lonsdale’s room was on the right-hand side going in at the front door, and Mr. Druitt’s on the left. John Hy. Lonsdale said he occupied a house in East Borough, Wimborne. The Rev. Chas. Druitt was staying with him. The last witness was his house-keeper. He remembered being with Mr. Druitt on the evening of April 4th. He had a sword, a blunderbuss, and a Japanese dagger hanging on a rack in the hall. On the following morning he came down at about ten minutes to eight and noticed they were gone. Mr. Druitt came down in a few minutes after, and they both went out to the service at the Minster. On his return, in consequence of what the housekeeper said, he noticed outside of Mr. Druitt’s sitting-room that a plant was crushed, as if someone had trodden on it. Mr. Druitt came in a few minutes after, and in consequence of what witness told him they examined his room and found that his despatch-box was gone. They at once gave information to the police. He was, about a fortnight ago, show the despatch-box, blunderbuss, and the sword now produced, and which he identified. The despatch-box was Mr. Druitt’s property. He went to the house of the prisoner, Thomas Dymott, with Sergeant Long and P. C. Powell. They saw Thomas Dymott and Jane Dymott. He heard Sergeant Long ask them if they knew anything about the things. They both denied any knowledge of the articles. The hall door was not open when witness went to bed on Tuesday night. Charles Druitt, who was the next witness, said he remembered using his despatch-box on the evening in question, and about half-past nine locked up some papers in it and removed it to a small table in the window. It was not in a case. The window was shut. Mr. Lonsdale afterwards joined him and they went to bed at about 11 o’clock. He next saw the box at the police station on Thursday, the 28th ult. On the morning of the same day he had been to the house of the prisoner, Thomas Dymott, and saw him and Jane Dymott. Sergt. Long said, “We want to know whether you can tell us anything about these things?” Thomas Dymott said, “I don’t know anything about them.” Jane Dymott made use of some form of oath, and asked him as a clergyman to bear witness she was ignorant and innocent of the whole affair. Thomas Dymott consented to his house being searched. Witness had to attend service at the church, and therefore left and returned in half an hour. A search was made but none of his property was discovered. When the box was shown to him at the police station he found that the lock had been tampered with, and would not turn with its proper key. The total value of the articles lost was about 9l. The female prisoner called upon him the same night that he was shown the things at the police station. She assured him that she was innocent of any complicity in the robbery. Sophia Snell, widow, Wimborne, said the prisoner, Thomas Dymott, lived next door to her. She remembered Wm. Dymott coming to her house on Tuesday morning, the 26th of April, with a bag which he asked her to let him put in her back house. He gave her the bag and she put it there. About half an hour afterwards she saw two policemen go into Dymott’s house. She thought there must be something wrong, and she called Mrs. James a neighbor. They had a chat together, and Mrs. James went out and took the things out of the bag. There was a box (now produced), a gun, a bright dagger in the case, and a sword. Mrs. James brought the box into the house. Jane Dymott was sitting close to the table on which Mrs. James put the box. Mrs. James said, “It looks like the one that was stolen over in the Borough.” She then took the box back and put it in the bag. Witness said to Jane Dymott that she must take it away. She said, “William will be back in half and hour when he will fetch it.” In the afternoon Mrs. James came to see her, and the bag was still there. They had a talk together, and witness took the bag and carried it to Mrs. Dymott’s door. The box and the other things were in the bag when she took it there. Jane Dymott opened the door, and witness said, “Jane, you must take this bag; I can keep it no longer.” She took the bag, and shut the door. The same day Jane Dymott came to witness, and told her that she “must not say anything about it.” At this time there was a knock on her door, and she did not make any answer. On Thursday, the 28th ult., William Dymott came to her home in the morning, and asked her to come in, as Jane wanted to speak to her. She went in. There was a box on the table and an old sword. A second sword produced by Sergeant Long was the one. William asked her to say that was the same box and sword that were in the bag. She said no, they were not a bit like them. Jane and William said, “if you will say it was it will keep us out of a row.” She told them it was a story, and she would tell no stories to please anybody. Elizabeth James gave evidence corroborating the previous witness. Eliza Holloway, aunt to William Dymott, living at the almshouses, stated that William Dymott brought two parcels, wrapped in brown paper, and asked her to take charge of them. He said they were a few things he had bought. She took them, and placed them under her bed. Police-sergeant Long gave evidence as to visiting the residence of Mr. Lonsdale. He had some bills printed and circulated offering a reward respecting the robbery. On the 28th April information respecting it was brought to the station. Acting on that information he went to the prisoner’s house, in company with Mr. Druitt and Mr. Lonsdale. He told Thomas Dymott that he had been informed that his son William had taken a bag into Mrs. Snell’s on the previous Tuesday, containing things corresponding with those that had been stolen from Mr. Lonsdale’s, and that it had been brought back again and been taken in by his daughter Jane. Both the father and the daughter denied all knowledge of the matter. He cautioned them both, and said that if they had the things in the house they had better say so. Thomas still denied all knowledge of the matter. At this point Mr. Bowen raised and objection to this evidence going on the depositions, as the officer had no right to make any suggestion of the kind. After some discussions, the Bench conceded the point, and the evidence was expunged. Sergt. Long proceeded to state that with the consent of the prisoner they searched the house and found nothing but the three bronze medals. He subsequently saw Wm. Dymott in custody at the police station. He heard him charged with committing a robbery at Mr. Lonsdale’s house and cautioned. Prisoner said he did not know anything about the robbery, and that he had bought the box and paid for it, and also the sword and the blunderbuss. He bought them of a man in Wimborne and gave him 10s. for them; but he did not know who the man was. There was no ring or letters in the box. He added that if a constable would go with him he would show him where the things were. Mr. Batty, the superintendent, refused to let him go. Prisoner then intimated where the things might be found. Witness went with Constable New to Mrs. Holloway’s house, where they found the despatch-box and the sword and blunderbuss done up in brown paper. Witness saw Thomas Dymott again, who admitted that he put the bag outside the door in a wheelbarrow, but he said he did not know what was in the bag. On Saturday last witness was in the police cell just as Jane Dymott was brought in. William Dymott said, “You will have to have in somebody else now, I cannot stand this any longer. I don’t see why my father and sister should have to suffer when other people are at liberty.” Witness asked him what he meant, and he again said, “You must get in somebody else,” and he subsequently said, “You must get in Brewer.” Mr. Curtis, at this point, objected to this evidence against Mr. Brewer, but the objection was not allowed. Sergeant Long, continuing, said that he had Brewer brought in, and the prisoner Dymott said, “You know I bought the things off you, Brewer; we struck a bargain in the square; we afterwards met at the Three Lions, and I paid you 10s.” Brewer said he did not know anything about it.—At this point the Bench enquired whether the police could carry the case any further against Brewer. Sergeant Long said they could not.—The Chairman said that in that case they would ease Mr. Curtis’s mind and discharge his client. Brewer was then discharged. – P. C. new stated that on the 28th April he apprehended William Dymott and charged him on suspicion with committing a burglary. P. C. Powell gave evidence of searching prisoner’s house. On May 2nd he made a further search of prisoner’s house, and found a gold ring in a case and a bunch of keys. On the 6th May he again searched the house, and found some coins, which were identified by Mr. Druitt. P. S. Long, recalled, said he apprehended Thomas Dymott on April 29th. Mr. Bowen then addressed the bench on behalf of the elder prisoner, Thomas Dymott, contending that there was no case against him to go to a jury. The Bench committed all the prisoners for trial at the next assizes, but the father and daughter were admitted to bail.

[aspallek]

An account of the wedding of John Henry Lonsdale and Katharine Carr Glyn at Wimborne Minster, December 1888. A fuller article gave a partial list of guests. Very disappointingly there were no Druitts listed. Of course, Montague would have been indisposed as his body was lying at the bottom of the Thames but it disappointing that no other Druitts were included. However, as I said, it was not a complete guest list.

Bournemouth Observer and Chronicle, 22 December 1888

WIMBORNE

FASHIONABLE WEDDING AT THE MINSTER – The Minster was well filled on Tuesday afternoon by a large number of the inhabitants of the town and neighbourhood, who were drawn together to witness the marriage of Miss Katharine (sic) Carr Glyn, the second daughter of Captain Carr S. Glynn, J.P., and Mrs. Glyn, of Wood Leaze, Wimborne, and the Rev. John Gylby (sic – should be “Henry”) Lonsdale, only son of the Rev. John Gylby Lonsdale, Canon of Lichfield. The interesting ceremony was fixed to take place at half-past two. A large number of seats were reserved for the friends of the contracting parties. Canon Lonsdale, the Rev. Carr Glyn, and Mrs. Carr Glyn were the first to arrive, closely following by the bridegroom and his best man, Mr. Laurie. The other members of the bridal party were Lady Collier, Mrs. Lonsdale, and Misses Margaret, Sophie, and Annie Lonsdale, Mr. and Mrs. Carr Glyn, Mr. and Mrs. T. C. Carter, Lady and Mrs. Glyn, the Rev. W. and Miss Birbeck, Rev. H. E. Ravenhill, and Mr. Fazakerley. Soon after the bridegroom taking up his position on the front steps, the bride arrived, learning on the arm of her father, Captain Glyn. As they proceeded up the aisle, the hymn “The Voice that breathed o’er Eden” was sung. The bride was attended by Miss Carr Glyn (sic), Miss Evelyn Carr Glyn, and Miss Frances Carr Glyn (her sisters), Miss Annie Lonsdale (sister of the bridegroom), Miss Glyn and Miss G. N. Glyn (her cousins). She was charmingly attired in a dress, the bodice and train of which were composed of cream watered silk, petticoat of Ottoman silk with watered silk revers, and a pearl and silver embroidered panel. She also wore a Honitan lace veil, fastened with a diamond star, peal and diamond pins, and a spray of orange blossom, and carried a bouquet of choice hothouse flowers, the gift of the bridegroom. The bridesmaids were attired in dresses of cream serge, trimmed with silver and copper braid, with sashes and waistcoats of copper-coloured Terry velvet. They wore copper-coloured straw hats, with full crowns of Terry velvet and white ospreys. They each carried pieces of copper-coloured chrysanthemums tied with cream ribbon, the gift of the bride, and wore paste heart-shaped brooches, the gift of the bridegroom. Besides these, the bride was attended by Master Willie Parry Okeden, who acted as page. He was dressed in a suit of dark blue plush, with a full front of pale blue silk, and stockings of the same shade. He has also a pearl fly pin, the gift of the bride. He otherwise wore a dark blue plush Tam O’Shanter. The first part of the ceremony was performed near the lectern by Canon Lonsdale. Gthe choir sang the 128th Psalm to a chant by J. C. Beckwith, during the singing of which the newly married pair proceeded to the chancel, where the remainder of the service was conducted by the Rev. Carr John Glyn, M.A., grandfather of the bride and rector of Witchampton and Little Hinton. The concluding prayers and Benediction were said by the Rev. F. J. Huyshe (vicar); the Rev. W. Plater and the Rev. F. J. Swanston were present in their capacity as curates. At the termination of the ceremony the hymn “Through all the changing scenes of life” was sung, after which the bridal party proceeded to the vestry, the organist, Mr. J. Whitehead-Smith, R.A.M., played Mendelssohn’s “Wedding March.” There was a large number of persons outside the west door ready to receive the happy couple with a plentiful supply of rice as they drove off amidst merry peals from the western tower. A very large party were present at the wedding breakfast. The honeymoon will be spent in London, after which the happy couple will return to Plaxtole Rectory, Kent, where the bridegroom is officiating. The presents were numerous and costly.

[aspallek]

An article showing that John Henry Lonsdale was nearly drowned in 1888:

Bournemouth Observer and Chronicle, 25 August 1888

WIMBORNE

EXCITING BOATING ACCIDENT AT WEST LULWORTH. – An alarming, but happily not fatal, boating accident occurred at West Lulworth on Friday, and occasioned a great amount of sensation in this usually quiet locality. The Rev. J. H. Lonsdale, curate of Wimborne Minster, a well known and very popular visitor to Lulworth was out on the water with a boatman named “Mickey” White, one of the best known “salts” of the village, in a sailing boat belonging to the latter. They were about a mile from the Cove when a man named James Williams, who was at work in his garden on looking in the direction of the boat saw it suddenly disappear. He hastened to the beach and raised an alarm, and, in company with William Williams, launched a boat, and rowed with all possible expedition to the spot where the boat disappeared, several other boats following. They used such promptitude that they were only ten minutes in reaching the scene of the disaster. They first came up with Mr. Lonsdale, who, although in a very exhausted state, was keeping himself afloat by means of an oar. He told the men not to look after him, but to see for White, who, he was afraid, was drowned. They then rowed some little distance forward, but could see no trace of the missing boatman; but, noticing some foam on the surface, they looked into the water and saw his body at some depth below. They managed to get the man to the surface. He was black in the face and apparently lifeless. Mr. Lonsdale was subsequently rescued from his perilous position, and also brought to land to land (sic), where the usual means for restoration having been applied he soon recovered from the effects of his immersion. White remained in a critical state for two hours after his rescue, and there were serious doubts as to his resuscitation. Mr. Grainger was sent for from Wool, and eventually the poor man was restored to consciousness, and it is hoped that he will recover. Mr. Lonsdale, who is an expert swimmer, would have rendered assistance to White, but was unable to do so as he was unable to ascertain his whereabouts. It appears also that at the time of the accident the coast guard at the look-out was being relieved, so that the disaster was not seen from that point. There was a very stiff breeze at the time, and the boatsman, being near-sighted, did not observe a squall coming, the consequence being that it struck the boat before he was aware. By some means the mizen sheet was not let go, the sail filled, and the boat capsized and went down immediately bows foremost. The loss of the boat would have been a serious matter to White, as it cost him £40, and was considered the best boat on the station. On Sunday morning, however, Messrs. Cosens and Co.’s steamer Queen, under the command of Captain Beale, with the aid of a diver, raised the boat, which was in ten fathoms of water. As may be easily imagined there was tremendous excitement in the village when the news of the misfortune spread, accompanied by the rumour that both occupants of the boat were drowned; and much gratification was felt when it became known that no fatal consequences had resulted from the casualty. Mr. Lonsdale on Sunday returned thanks for his marvellous (sic) escape, at Wimborne Minster, where he officiates.

[Robert]

Good stuff, Andy. Certainly it looks to have been no mere overnight visit - Druitt had his own sitting room.

Robert

[aspallek]

Robert posted this in the King's Bench Walk thread:

Just going briefly off topic, because I don't know where else to put it : Andy, you once wondered about some sort of distant genealogical connection in the case for your pop hero Robert Fripp. Here he is on you tube, and he's heavily into his family tree.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lcXZIM7_gwY

This is a very interesting thread and presents some intriguing possibilities.

Robert Fripp is the lead and founding member of the rock band King Crimson which had a cult following in the 60s and 70s. Their music was a bit in the type of the Moody Blues or Emerson Lake and Palmer. Indeed, Greg Lake was part of King Crimson for a time. Their signature album was "In the Court of the Crimson King."

Robert Fripp is from Wimborne Minster, Montague Druitt's home and the parish where Lonsdale initially served as curate and where he was serving in 1888.

Surgeon Alfred Fripp, who also hailed from Dorset, was Physician in Ordinary to Edward VII and also a close friend to John Henry Lonsdale. He circulated in the crowd that included JK Stephen and Prince Eddy. His father was artist Alfred Downing Fripp, Sr. His godfather was Prince Eddy's tutor John Neale Dalton.

The question I have is whether guitarist Robert Fripp is related to Alfred Fripp, the surgeon. In the youtube clip, Fripp mentions his great-great grandfather's name: Abraham Fripp and says he was "very prolific." I would say it is quite likely then that there is a distant relationship. There is an Abraham Fripp whose death was recorded at age 78 in Wimborne at the interesting time of September 1888, while Lonsdale was at Wimborne Minster. This must be Robert's great-great grandfather. In the 1881 census he is listed as a "road mans labourer." Surgeon Alfred Fripp's paternal grandfather, however, was a clergyman.

It is interesting, however, in that surgeon Alfred Fripp was born at Blandford Forum, just a few miles from Wimborne Minster. Who else is from Blandford? Frederick Abberline. Kitty Lonsdale (wife of John Henry). And Henry Richard Farquharson is from Tarrant Gunville, just six miles away. Now, Robert Fripp traces his ancestry to Witchampton, which is in the same area and not at all far from Iwerne Minster and Fontmell Magna where Lonsdale finished his career. There is also an "Alfred Tom Fripp" born in Wimborne in 1877.

So it is tantalizing to think that somewhere in guitarist Robert Fripp's ancestry there may be knowledge of the identity of Jack the Ripper.

[Robert]

Hi Andy

Robert Fripp has an online searchable diary :

http://www.dgmlive.com/search_diaries.htm?diarist=3

[aspallek]

Just found out that the surgeon Alfred Fripp's paternal grandfather was the Rev. Samuel Charles Fripp from Gloucester.

In the diary Robert found, Robert Fripp refers to an uncle, Alfred George Fripp. The name Alfred suggests a possible relation to the family of Alfred Downing Fripp.