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The relationship between Thomas Cutbush and Supt. Charles Cutbush

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  • Kitnkaat
    replied
    Originally posted by Wade Aznable View Post
    Hello all,
    I revive this thread because I'd like to know if there have been any updates in trying to link the two Cutbushes.
    As late as 2012, John Keefe in his "Carrotty Nell" says that MM was actually wrong and the two were unrelated. I wasn't aware of this, so I checked here on Casebook and stumbled across this old thread, thus discovering that this doubt has been around for a while.
    So... any news? Any definitive data for or against?

    Thank You, and best regards,
    W
    If you are interested in the genealogy of the Cutbushes you should check out the archived "Cutbush in the 1881 Census" . There is a lengthy discussion there about this interesting family including the fact that there are branches spread out in Australia and other places. Also, an interesting fact is that many of the Cutbush boys were bigamists

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  • RavenDarkendale
    replied
    I just read this book The Whitechapel Murder Mystery by Rob Hamilton, WHICH IS TOTAL FICTION, BTW. It does have an interesting look at Cutbush's involvement in the murders. Available on Kindle.

    Leave a comment:


  • Debra A
    replied
    Originally posted by Wade Aznable View Post
    Thank You all for solving my doubts.

    A little OT:
    Debra, I saw in here that You're involved in research work also about the Torso Murderer. Whom, needless to say, intrigues me a lot.
    The only books I've been able to find about the topic are Mei Trow's and R. Michael Gordon's ones. Could You suggest some more sources?

    Thanks in advance and best regards,
    W
    Those are currently the only two books on the subject, Wade. Both of these works are based on newspaper coverage of the torso finds.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wade Aznable
    replied
    Thank You all for solving my doubts.

    A little OT:
    Debra, I saw in here that You're involved in research work also about the Torso Murderer. Whom, needless to say, intrigues me a lot.
    The only books I've been able to find about the topic are Mei Trow's and R. Michael Gordon's ones. Could You suggest some more sources?

    Thanks in advance and best regards,
    W

    Leave a comment:


  • Robert
    replied
    I should say that my old friend AP Wolf feels in his bones that there was some sort of relationship, e.g. maybe via an illicit liaison between Supt Cutbush and Tom Cutbush's mother Kate. i don't discount AP's hunches, but as far as Debs and I know, there was no relationship.

    Leave a comment:


  • Phil H
    replied
    They were not related.

    See 1891 Cutbush 'Pedigree', Ripperologist 125.


    So something else Macnaghten got wrong and much closer to home!!

    Phil H

    Leave a comment:


  • Debra A
    replied
    Hi Wade,
    Simon is right, see also see the casebook archives c 2004/5.

    Author David Bullock is still writing as if the 'uncle/nephew' relationship exists in his new book 'The Man Who Would Be Jack: The Hunt For Jack The Ripper ' this information supposedly comes form a descendant of Superintendent Cutbush. David should know there is no 'official' relationship on paper as he claims to have studied the family tree extensively, plus he was a member of the boards in the days when most research on Cutbush was being done and it was discovered by Robert Linford that they weren't related.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wade Aznable
    replied
    Hello, Simon.
    Thank You very much.

    Best regards,
    W

    Leave a comment:


  • Simon Wood
    replied
    Hi Wade,

    They were not related.

    See 1891 Cutbush 'Pedigree', Ripperologist 125.

    Regards,

    Simon

    Leave a comment:


  • Wade Aznable
    replied
    Hello all,
    I revive this thread because I'd like to know if there have been any updates in trying to link the two Cutbushes.
    As late as 2012, John Keefe in his "Carrotty Nell" says that MM was actually wrong and the two were unrelated. I wasn't aware of this, so I checked here on Casebook and stumbled across this old thread, thus discovering that this doubt has been around for a while.
    So... any news? Any definitive data for or against?

    Thank You, and best regards,
    W

    Leave a comment:


  • ChrisGeorge
    replied
    Originally posted by caz View Post

    Incidentally, 'late' in this context would indeed refer to the position of Supt. Executive having been relinquished by the older Cutbush, not life itself.

    I forgive foreigners for their difficulties with the Victorian language. Modern British is hard enough to grapple with as it is.
    Hi Caz

    One of my favorite classic rock albums is "Quadrophenia" by The Who, which I listen to on a constant basis while taking the Marc train between Baltimore and Washington. In the song "Bell Boy" sung by the late Keith Moon, I'm always amused at the lyric "Bell Boy! Always running at someone's Eel." Seeing as "Eel" is such an East End specialty.

    Hoping to see you in London in October, Caz!

    All the best

    Chris

    Leave a comment:


  • Suzi
    replied
    Exactly! Caz- I reckon there were a lot of 'cousins', 'uncles','aunties' etc etc rattling around who had no relation (!) at all to these characters It happens today let's be honest!!!

    'Uncle' -There are many reasons for Uncle being here I reckon- as you say as 'Mummy's little friends' etc etc

    Also Pawnbrokers..were (and may still be ) known as 'Uncle'... 'Just going dahn to Uncles'

    And- don't forget the character 'Daddy' mentioned in Greenwood's 'Night in a Common Lodging House' and also later by Jack London- a seriously different 'Daddy' there though!

    Suz x

    Can't beat a Chambers I say Cazzikins!! Hey just checked too and nepho is also a root for the Latin for KIDNEY!!!!!!!!! Ah!

    (Like Websters- We're Morocco bound' ! heee)
    Last edited by Suzi; 02-20-2009, 06:16 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • caz
    replied
    Hi All,

    When reading this thread just now I began to wonder if 'a nephew' might at one time have had other meanings besides the son of a sibling. So I had a quick look in my Chambers and it seems my hunch was not too far off the mark. An obsolete definition is given as a grandson or descendant. Nepotism comes from the same root: nepos, nepotis - a grandson.

    Of course, 'uncle' can also be a euphemism for mummy's boyfriends and there's an old saying: It's a wise man who knows his own father.

    I'd be rather disappointed with Macnaghten if his observation that: 'Cutbush was a nephew of the late Supt. Executive' was nothing more than an assumption of a relationship based on name alone. You'd have thought he would have been only too glad if having a surname in common was all that could be established. Couldn't see it happening with a suspect named Smith and dear old Major Henry.

    Incidentally, 'late' in this context would indeed refer to the position of Supt. Executive having been relinquished by the older Cutbush, not life itself.

    I forgive foreigners for their difficulties with the Victorian language. Modern British is hard enough to grapple with as it is.

    Love,

    Caz
    X
    Last edited by caz; 02-20-2009, 05:49 PM.

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  • Robert
    replied
    Hi Simon

    I sort of had an image of a small room with a desk covered with papers, but according to that it must have been more like a board room.

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  • Simon Wood
    replied
    Hi Robert,

    I don't know the layout of the Scotland Yard offices either, but Cutbush's office must have been impressively large in order to accommodate the June 1890 Superintendents' conference which gathered to discuss the superannuation enhancements Monro was championing.

    The Times, 18th June 1890

    Click image for larger version

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    Regards,

    Simon

    Leave a comment:

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