The relationship between Thomas Cutbush and Supt. Charles Cutbush

[Robert]

I don't know what the layout of the offices was, but basically in 1894 Supt Cutbush had been gone two and a half years. In February 1891 he was still there, but I doubt if Macnaghten was working the jobbing case then. I suppose if there was a close relationship with Thomas, news might have reached Macnaghten to that effect and he might have taken an interest.

[Ally]

Or, he could in fact have no idea of the status of Cutbush at all, any more than he had of whether it was his nephew or Druitt's profession or any of the other mistakes he made in the memoranda.

The point remains though: AP attempted to bolster the case that there was a known relationship between the two Cutbushes and that McN would certainly have known the relationship between them because all he would have had to do was "knock on the next office door"-- a claim that is demonstrably false.

[Robert]

You nipped in first, Chris.

[Robert]

Hi Ally

i think that when Macnaghten referred to him as the "late" Supt Exec, he just meant that he was the previous Supt Exec, not that he was dead. I think Stewart has argued that there wouldn't have been any question of contacting him, since he was ill, and was no longer part of the Force. However the name "Macnaghten" has just made me reach for the Ibuprofen.

[Chris]

Not to mention that AP's babbling on the subject is as rife with inaccuracies as the MM itself. For example on the podcast he declared that Mcnaghten was hardly likely to mistake a relationship between the two Cutbushes since he could have just "knocked on the next door and asked Cutbush" completely overlooking the fact that Macnaghten apparently didn't even know the living status of Cutbush at the time, having referred to him as the late Supt. And regardless, Cutbush had already retired by that time.

Of course, it's a valid point about Charles Cutbush having retired. But to be fair, the word late could be used to mean "former"; in fact I think that's the natural reading of Macnaghten's comment.

[Ally]

Not to mention that AP's babbling on the subject is as rife with inaccuracies as the MM itself. For example on the podcast he declared that Mcnaghten was hardly likely to mistake a relationship between the two Cutbushes since he could have just "knocked on the next door and asked Cutbush" completely overlooking the fact that Macnaghten apparently didn't even know the living status of Cutbush at the time, having referred to him as the late Supt. And regardless, Cutbush had already retired by that time.

So as with most of APs fantasies based on his stories, it's best to take it with a grain of salt.

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi Simon

Just to put AP's view here (since he's not here to do it himself) : AP's convinced that "something funny" must have been going on with Supt Cutbush and Thomas's family, and that there was some sort of close relationship.

Supposition is not sufficient though, is it? There is much about the Ripper case that we can "suppose" and be wrong about it. As SPE noted in discussing the Macnaghten report aka memoranda over at JtR forums, "The note that 'Cutbush was a nephew of the late Supt Executive' is appended almost as an afterthought, or merely a note of interest."

Chris

[Simon Wood]

Thanks Robert,

AP's hunch makes a lot of sense.

I'll try him at the other place.

Regards,

Simon

[Robert]

Hi Simon

Just to put AP's view here (since he's not here to do it himself) : AP's convinced that "something funny" must have been going on with Supt Cutbush and Thomas's family, and that there was some sort of close relationship.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Excellent stuff. This is research at its very best.

When it comes to Jack the Ripper nothing would surprise me about the ineptitude of the LVP police, but even I am flabbergasted to think that Macnaghten didn't take the trouble to ensure Thomas and Charles Cutbush were actually related before penning his memorandum.

Mind you, MM also said MJD was a doctor and, six years after the event, didn't know Ostrog had been in a Parisian jail throughout the WM. So God knows what he got wrong about Kosminski.

What a copper! Let's hope MM was a better plantation manager.

Regards,

Simon

[Robert]

Chris, have emailed you re Broadmoor.

[Chris Scott]

For Thomas to be a nephew of Charles Cutbush in the strict lineal sense of the word, and as both bore the name Cutbush, then Thomas's father, Thomas Taylor Cutbush, would have to be the brother of Charles Cutbush, of which there is certainly no indication.
One other possibility (for which I know of no evidence to date) is that while in custody or in the asylum that Thomas claimed kinship with a high ranking policeman of the same name. But it seems logical that this would have been checked out and does not explain why McNaghten simply quoted it as if it were fact
Chris

[Robert]

Hi Two Chrises

As far as I can tell, all the evidence shows that Thomas Taylor Cutbush (Thomas Cutbush's father) and Supt Cutbush were born six months apart in two different counties to two different pairs of parents, so while there might be some vague family link, they weren't brothers.

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi Chris

But then of course Macnaghten could have been just as inaccurate about that as saying Druitt was a doctor. Could it have been more that the police were afraid that there was a family connection rather than there actually was one?

Chris

[Chris Scott]

Hi Chris
As AP said in the podcast last Sunday, the purported relationship is based on the comment in the McNaghten memorandum when, discussing Thomas Cutbush, he writes
"Cutbush was the nephew of the late Supt. Executive."

The use of the word "late" here does not mean dead - Cutbush did not die until 1896 and the memo was written in 1894
Cutbush retired in August 1891, as reported as follows in the Reynold's Newspaper:
"The retirement on a pension of Superintendent C H Cutbush, of the Metropolitan Police Force, is announced. He has been in failing health for some time past, caused partly by the many changes since the resignation of Sir E Henderson, five years ago. Mr Cutbush, who was one of the best known heads of the police, joined the force in December 1869 in the A Divisionunder the regime of Sir A Mayne."
The suicide of Cutbush was reported as follows on 10 March 1896:
"Mr G P Wyatt held an inquiry last night at Stockwell with reference to the death of Charles Henry Cutbush, aged 58 years, a retired police superintendent, who committed suicide by shooting himself with a revolver at his residence, No 3, Burnley Road, Stockwell, on Thursday last.
Dr White, of 41 South Lambeth Road, said that he had been attending the deceased for some time past for insomnia and depression. He was subject to delusions.
It having been stated that the deceased left the police force in 1891 owing to an affection of the brain, the jury returned a verdict of "Suicide during temporary insanity."

The exercise I'm doing is just to look at the family relationships of both men to see if there is any point of contact.

Robert
Thanks for that:-)