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The relationship between Thomas Cutbush and Supt. Charles Cutbush

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  • #16
    Hi Ally

    i think that when Macnaghten referred to him as the "late" Supt Exec, he just meant that he was the previous Supt Exec, not that he was dead. I think Stewart has argued that there wouldn't have been any question of contacting him, since he was ill, and was no longer part of the Force. However the name "Macnaghten" has just made me reach for the Ibuprofen.

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    • #17
      You nipped in first, Chris.

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      • #18
        Or, he could in fact have no idea of the status of Cutbush at all, any more than he had of whether it was his nephew or Druitt's profession or any of the other mistakes he made in the memoranda.

        The point remains though: AP attempted to bolster the case that there was a known relationship between the two Cutbushes and that McN would certainly have known the relationship between them because all he would have had to do was "knock on the next office door"-- a claim that is demonstrably false.
        Last edited by Ally; 02-18-2009, 08:28 PM.

        Let all Oz be agreed;
        I need a better class of flying monkeys.

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        • #19
          I don't know what the layout of the offices was, but basically in 1894 Supt Cutbush had been gone two and a half years. In February 1891 he was still there, but I doubt if Macnaghten was working the jobbing case then. I suppose if there was a close relationship with Thomas, news might have reached Macnaghten to that effect and he might have taken an interest.

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          • #20
            Hi Robert,

            I don't know the layout of the Scotland Yard offices either, but Cutbush's office must have been impressively large in order to accommodate the June 1890 Superintendents' conference which gathered to discuss the superannuation enhancements Monro was championing.

            The Times, 18th June 1890

            Click image for larger version

Name:	CUTBUSH OFFICE.jpg
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            Regards,

            Simon
            Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

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            • #21
              Hi Simon

              I sort of had an image of a small room with a desk covered with papers, but according to that it must have been more like a board room.

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              • #22
                Hi All,

                When reading this thread just now I began to wonder if 'a nephew' might at one time have had other meanings besides the son of a sibling. So I had a quick look in my Chambers and it seems my hunch was not too far off the mark. An obsolete definition is given as a grandson or descendant. Nepotism comes from the same root: nepos, nepotis - a grandson.

                Of course, 'uncle' can also be a euphemism for mummy's boyfriends and there's an old saying: It's a wise man who knows his own father.

                I'd be rather disappointed with Macnaghten if his observation that: 'Cutbush was a nephew of the late Supt. Executive' was nothing more than an assumption of a relationship based on name alone. You'd have thought he would have been only too glad if having a surname in common was all that could be established. Couldn't see it happening with a suspect named Smith and dear old Major Henry.

                Incidentally, 'late' in this context would indeed refer to the position of Supt. Executive having been relinquished by the older Cutbush, not life itself.

                I forgive foreigners for their difficulties with the Victorian language. Modern British is hard enough to grapple with as it is.

                Love,

                Caz
                X
                Last edited by caz; 02-20-2009, 05:49 PM.
                "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


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                • #23
                  Exactly! Caz- I reckon there were a lot of 'cousins', 'uncles','aunties' etc etc rattling around who had no relation (!) at all to these characters It happens today let's be honest!!!

                  'Uncle' -There are many reasons for Uncle being here I reckon- as you say as 'Mummy's little friends' etc etc

                  Also Pawnbrokers..were (and may still be ) known as 'Uncle'... 'Just going dahn to Uncles'

                  And- don't forget the character 'Daddy' mentioned in Greenwood's 'Night in a Common Lodging House' and also later by Jack London- a seriously different 'Daddy' there though!

                  Suz x

                  Can't beat a Chambers I say Cazzikins!! Hey just checked too and nepho is also a root for the Latin for KIDNEY!!!!!!!!! Ah!

                  (Like Websters- We're Morocco bound' ! heee)
                  Last edited by Suzi; 02-20-2009, 06:16 PM.
                  'Would you like to see my African curiosities?'

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by caz View Post

                    Incidentally, 'late' in this context would indeed refer to the position of Supt. Executive having been relinquished by the older Cutbush, not life itself.

                    I forgive foreigners for their difficulties with the Victorian language. Modern British is hard enough to grapple with as it is.
                    Hi Caz

                    One of my favorite classic rock albums is "Quadrophenia" by The Who, which I listen to on a constant basis while taking the Marc train between Baltimore and Washington. In the song "Bell Boy" sung by the late Keith Moon, I'm always amused at the lyric "Bell Boy! Always running at someone's Eel." Seeing as "Eel" is such an East End specialty.

                    Hoping to see you in London in October, Caz!

                    All the best

                    Chris
                    Christopher T. George
                    Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conference
                    just held in Baltimore, April 7-8, 2018.
                    For information about RipperCon, go to http://rippercon.com/
                    RipperCon 2018 talks can now be heard at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/

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                    • #25
                      Hello all,
                      I revive this thread because I'd like to know if there have been any updates in trying to link the two Cutbushes.
                      As late as 2012, John Keefe in his "Carrotty Nell" says that MM was actually wrong and the two were unrelated. I wasn't aware of this, so I checked here on Casebook and stumbled across this old thread, thus discovering that this doubt has been around for a while.
                      So... any news? Any definitive data for or against?

                      Thank You, and best regards,
                      W
                      Whoooops... I did it again.

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                      • #26
                        Hi Wade,

                        They were not related.

                        See 1891 Cutbush 'Pedigree', Ripperologist 125.

                        Regards,

                        Simon
                        Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Hello, Simon.
                          Thank You very much.

                          Best regards,
                          W
                          Whoooops... I did it again.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Hi Wade,
                            Simon is right, see also see the casebook archives c 2004/5.

                            Author David Bullock is still writing as if the 'uncle/nephew' relationship exists in his new book 'The Man Who Would Be Jack: The Hunt For Jack The Ripper ' this information supposedly comes form a descendant of Superintendent Cutbush. David should know there is no 'official' relationship on paper as he claims to have studied the family tree extensively, plus he was a member of the boards in the days when most research on Cutbush was being done and it was discovered by Robert Linford that they weren't related.

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                            • #29
                              They were not related.

                              See 1891 Cutbush 'Pedigree', Ripperologist 125.


                              So something else Macnaghten got wrong and much closer to home!!

                              Phil H

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                              • #30
                                I should say that my old friend AP Wolf feels in his bones that there was some sort of relationship, e.g. maybe via an illicit liaison between Supt Cutbush and Tom Cutbush's mother Kate. i don't discount AP's hunches, but as far as Debs and I know, there was no relationship.

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