What do we know about this character?

[R Wallace]

To Raven Darkendale

I've read Dan Kiley's book on Peter Pan Syndrome. It was not my type of book, though I won't deny his efforts to treat an observable problem. I don't care for such books that lack indices, foot or end notes. It's interesting that he focuses on the syndrome as more observable since the 1940s while Barrie came out of Victorian England (and appears to have become a replacement child after his oldest brother's death). And he identifies it as heavily populated by middle/upper class boys, those that come with at least some resources and expectations.

I see some parallels with Charles Dodgson but don't see "Lewis Carroll" as his escape personality. I'm disinclined to make strong arguments either for or against its description of Dodgson. I see the syndrome as heavy on narcissism followed by depression (which Haley doesn't emphasize as much as I would) especially as life goes on. There's enormous loss -- the loss of one's self and life – the longer it goes on

My counseling of teens who seem lost focused on the loss of opportunity if they don't accomplish certain things at age-appropriate times; i. e., that it's awfully difficult to make up for un-acquired skill/emotional development tasks and re-engage in some level of identity and accomplishment, so important for positive adult feelings. The future becomes increasingly limited. I'm a great believer in Erickson's work. For a quick summary, the following link looks good: http://www.support4change.com/index....=47&Itemid=108.

One of the reasons it is so difficult to treat – the depression, that is – is that life is being lost with really less and less opportunity to turn things around. Young people are told they can do anything they put their minds to. Rubbish! And a false promise. Innate personality, learning, and skills are much greater determinants. Some people think they can just decide what they want to do (magical thinking), try, and fail through a failure to recognize who they are and are not – what their strengths and weaknesses are. (That said, on a personal note, I left 25 years in computer programming and management and became a licensed therapist, experienced great satisfaction in both. I've always seen it as a transfer of analytical skills rather than a total change in who I am.)

And, of course, lying underneath the depression is some degree of rage, often at parents, who the teen and emerging adult blame for not preparing the child for adulthood – for the ability to enter the world as it is or a segment of the world in which a satisfying life can be experienced. For that person childhood is the safest and perhaps the most exhilarating state.

In any event, I believe and think I demonstrated that Dodgson's rage began to erupt while still in childhood, only to be exacerbated by the felt total betrayal of public school. It doesn't seem that he idealized his childhood.

Regards,

R Wallace

[RavenDarkendale]

RD,

foot-meter purists and those to whom flow of language is more important

Just a personal observation, but I don't think that is an either-or proposition. When poetry scans the language flows quite nicely and naturally.

Don.

Yes indeed, but some must fit stressed/unstressed meter, length of line, etc. such as iambic pentameter, while others rely on phrasing to keep the flow. There is a difference.

[Supe]

RD,

foot-meter purists and those to whom flow of language is more important

Just a personal observation, but I don't think that is an either-or proposition. When poetry scans the language flows quite nicely and naturally.

Don.

[R Wallace]

To Raven Darkendale

Re post 64: Daunting task? Precisely, a genius at work. Of course I don't believe he did this with every poem he wrote. He might have had a theme for the anagram -- the essential message -- and then did a simultaneous solution to the poetic needs and the anagram.

Regards,

R Wallace

[RavenDarkendale]

R Wallace

He did, indeed make up words, as did Edward Lear and Ogdan Nash. One thing and I promise, I'm through with anagrams.

Poetry comes in rhymed and free verse, foot-meter purists and those to whom flow of language is more important.

LC wrote poetry that was correct in foot-meter and also sometimes complicated rhyme. That would mean he would have to come up with a statement he wished to hide via anagram, and then make it fit the poetic patterns in which he wrote. A daunting task, don't you think?

Highest regards,

Raven Darkendale

[R Wallace]

To Raven Darkendale

Re posts 62 and 63.

I agree generally with your analysis of the descent into violence; but if the rage is intellectualized instead of made physical, then there is no violence until the intellectualization breaks down. I see that as the LC pattern. There was no physical violence ever reported during his life. I'm sure in many cases, intellectualization never breaks down.

Peter Pan Syndrome is not recognized by the Diagnostics and Standards Manual, the "bible" for the mental health profession, which in addition to driving treatment, drives billing. I believe they considered it but concluded that its elements were included in other diagnoses, such as narcissism. I'll comment more when I've read Haley's book.

I like the Batman reference.

Re: Rule 42 of the Code and the wooden block. I decided which letters to omit only when I could not find any meaningful anagram using all fifty letters and "stumbled" on the anagram with just 42 letters. I guess one could say that was arbitrary; but I clearly laid out in the book that it was the only intentional deviation from my rule of using all the letters . In fact I would have rejected my solution if I had not thought I'd solved the riddle of Rule 42. While I've been accused of not using all the letters in other anagrams in the books, the only one which has been specifically identified was the Jabberwocky anagram, which I've acknowledged publicly in several venues as an error on my part but which three letters made a usable word in the anagram. I believe the e-book version has the correction in the appropriate place; the book versions will be corrected if ever reprinted. I've accepted your explanation that your Frances Coles anagram with three extra letters was not intentionally done.

Factoid: That was one of the more difficult anagrams to solve, precisely due to the letter count problem. Jabberwocky was easier, in retrospect, I believe, because LC created fake words to fit his needs, however wonderful the verse is.

Regards,

R Wallace

[RavenDarkendale]

I didn't check all your anagrams, but the last one on Frances Coles doesn't have the right number of letters and you added an "i" for lice that wasn't in the original.

Yea, I seem to have spelled "Frances Coles" totally wrong (Francis Coles), although how I got the extra "i" in there I'm not sure.

Anyhoo, "Frances Coles" becomes "Fecal censors".

Now, as you know, I refuse to disparage your anagram evidence just because I disagree. This post of yours did bring up one thing though. You caught me out on a single letter deviation from the original. I don't believe you ever answered me as to how you decided to eliminate 8 letters from the wooden block to reach 42, and make your anagram.

I misspelled and that caused my mistake. Simple, easy mistake. But given that the "Rule of 42" is correct, 8 letters must be eliminated, and I wonder what your clue was as to which ones. Please understand I am not trying to start an argument, just an answer to a simple question, after which I promise to not mention anagrams again in this thread.

God Bless



Raven

[RavenDarkendale]

R Wallace

Everything has to have cause and effect. Lewis Carroll's descent into his fantasy worlds and the fact he was most comfortable with children was what lead me to believe he harbored hatred for his parents. Victorian society being what it was, his mother would have more contact with him than his father. He no doubt blamed her for many of the things that happened to him. In his mind, where was she when he needed her? Hatred for her is not a stretch then. Victorian fathers often focused on social standing and business causing negative impact on their family life. Hatred of an absent, cold father was not unusual.

Hatred leads to anger which if no healthy outlet is found, crests in violence. At first this will show in violent outbursts of vocal vitriol, and possible violence in the form of self mutilation, destruction of property, and assault and battery. But long repressed anger can go into what I call "cold rage". There is no mercy, no regret, each action coldly calculated to do the most harm. There you have a good portrait of how anger might have driven jtR. No hesitation marks in any of the wounds, dedication to the mutilations, each grows worse.

Martha Tabram shows signs of a rage killing with "hot rage", randomly striking here and there in blind fury. On the other hand, Polly Nichols show design, the cuts precise, the posing, the exposed entrails. This grows worse with each murder, deliberate removal of body parts, until it was voiced by some of the investigators of the crimes that JtR must have skill, either a surgeon or an animal slaughter.

Does Peter Pan Syndrome cover all of this? Psychiatrists disagree on the subject, some even saying it isn't a real diagnosis. (Here I refer to the Wiki for this information). The fantasy world as reality and this world just one to live in when one has to, shows a child-like mind and resistance to grow up. Anger will flare because the sufferer is forced to deal with things for which their childhood has not prepared them. They are suspicious of adults, secretive, living in the world and faking their way through it, fantasy never far from their minds. This describes LC, is it Peter Pan Syndrome will have to be left to experts, I am not among them.

I leave it to you, have I correctly stated cause and effect and how they plunged LC into his fantasy worlds and games? If so, I merely acknowledge he could have further descended into madness and cold blooded killing.

Let me close with The Joker's remark to Batman in the movie "Batman Begins".

"You see insanity is a lot like gravity. All it needs is a little push."

God bless

Raven

[R Wallace]

To Raven Darkendale

I've ordered Dan Kiley's book at the library, hope to learn more about Peter Pan Syndrome from the man who defined it. I'm particularly interested in learning whether rage is an or the underlying driver.

You've written much about LC's anger toward his mother and father and indicated that his mother disrespected his father. I don't recall finding anyone who documented such in-family feelings, so I'm wondering how you reached the conclusion. I reached it based on my belief that he started using angry anagrams in the family publications even before he went into the public school system. In other words, he was demonstrating anger toward them and the world they created for him as a child. But only in secret.

It's nice to communicate with someone who puts value in profiling. Many writers have named suspects for whom no profile was ever developed. I think the "profile" on Druitt consists of him having committed suicide.

LC's escape was into many "worlds." These included word games, mathematics, logic, nonsense writing, mathematical games – all of which kept the mind busy and which require great concentration and what I describe as "simultaneous solutions" -- holding many variables in awareness to complete a puzzle solution. I believe another world was secret rebellion directed toward parents and Victorian society and institutions. Sylvie and Bruno has two or more themes running simultaneously (one of which I believe is in anagrams), a very difficult writing task and I believe one of the reasons the books are so awkward and were never commercially successful. LC was never really able to replicate the Alice books. Except for taking in royalties, he never returned to Wonderland. Some of his escapes were to keep his rage in check-- diversions, if you will; but I believe it erupted in the Ripper murders, still in secret, but a caper pulled off, nevertheless.

You mentioned his stammer. There's a lot in the AOLC about the psychological underpinnings of the stammerer. It's not pretty.

I suspect we'll have lasting differences on the subject of anagrams as a means of communication, not just word games, and perhaps on the issue of LC as sociopath.

Regards,

R Wallace

[RavenDarkendale]

Mr Wallace, Hi again

From your own "profile" (got the spelling wrong the other time, eh? ) you show LC as awkward around adults. He stammers. He is more comfortable in the presence of children. He had a father that was pretty much unavailable, a mother who disparaged the father in front of the children. His school years were marked by bullying and almost certainly being used as a fag by older students.

(By the by, I first came across this despicable "fag" business in the AJ Raffles stories long ago, and was intrigued enough, since the word only meant "homosexual partner" to me at the time, to find out what it meant in practice. The fag was a servant, doing all kinds of nasty chores for their "master", often doing their schoolwork, covering for them when they needed an alibi, take the blame for the master's mistakes, and yes, serve as sexual partner if that was the master's preference.)

His family was overtly religious, and he was expected to follow suit. He was awkward with love. He was filled with rage, against his parents, especially his mother, against religion in general and his home church in particular. He accomplished much, as you say, but never felt he was anything to anyone. His Fellowship was in his eyes, merely tolerated by the other Dons. He found it difficult to preach, felt that no one was listening, and dodged it all he could.

His childhood ruined by the actions of family, schoolmates, teachers, etc. drove him into a dependence on an ever growing fantasy world. He could accept responsibility as an adult, but he could never grow up, never measure up to his own expectations, and certainly felt his ideas and plans never would meet others approval. He was a breakdown waiting to happen, held together only by his rich imagination. He ceased being Charles Lutwidge Dodgson, and became Lewis Carroll, man of magical nonsense. A split personality perhaps.

How does this make him a suspect? Any competent profiler has already marked several red flags in my analysis. A man who feels inadequate and neglected. Stormy relationship with parents. Perhaps disrespected his father since his mother did in front of him. Domineering mother. Child abuse and bulling. Trapped in a religious world not of his own making,. Rage of which he had no great control, no healthy pop-off valve to release pressure. Not just flaming rage, this burns up quickly and passes. A smouldering rage that becomes cold and calculating.

Combine the red flags and compare to red flags concerning JtR. Does the profile of JtR overlap the profile of LC? Certainly they do. Was LC in London in 1888? Absolutely. Could he have been at the crime scenes at the right times? He cannot be ruled out.

When a suspect fits the profile of the unsub, this suspect must be investigated.

I'm leaving out a lot here, but this profile is very personal to me, and the fantasy world in which LC lived just shouts out: "Never grow up, at least on the inside. Tolerate adults, be responsible, but never, never grow up."

Had LC been in the present, there are medications and counseling to help keep the dragon chained. When the dragon escapes, it's never pretty... Fantasy worlds look good sometimes, but we do not live in the "sweet by and by" but in the "nasty now and now"

OH, and never expect people to understand you, they won't. Stay true to yourself. That's all that counts.

Forgive me if I have rambled a little here and there. As I said LC's profile by you, and my take on it being Peter Pan Syndrome is very personal, very personal indeed.

God bless

Raven

[R Wallace]

To Raven Darkendale:

A few thoughts on your post and a suggestion.

The more I think about it I don't think LC had Peter Pan Syndrome. Here's why. He developed (orally), wrote the Alice books and published them and lived off the proceeds. He did not live in the fantasy world of Wonderland. He did spend a lot of time with children re books and stories and included them in his annual trips to the beach. (Whether he included them or used them in his photography is another discussion.) But he also lived in an adult world, was manager of the dining room at Christ Church, Oxford,for about 20 years, interacting with many adults in that task. He wrote the Sylvie and Bruno books, hardly children literature and spent much more time on them than the Alice works. (Tough reads. What do you think of my comments about why he included an Index in those novels?) He was involved in campus issues, though it seems as an outsider. And he had a rich social life with adults, mostly women. He was an avid theater goer, and not just to children's productions. And he developed and published his books on logic and mathematics, and poetry. Obsessive? Yes. Intelligent? Yes. In some sort of "fantasy world" much of the time? Yes. But didn't grow up? He did, but awkwardly and, in my opinion, fueled with anger. Peter Pan? No. Jekyll/Hyde? Yes, but without the chemistry. A classic child of the Victorian split.

I didn't check all your anagrams, but the last one on Frances Coles doesn't have the right number of letters and you added an "i" for lice that wasn't in the original. I honestly just didn't like most of your anagrams. Hence, I thought that might be an effort to disparage (like some other critics have done). I'm going to accept the stated sincerity of your efforts and appreciate your kind words re mine.

I stay away from other suspects because I reject the cases against them, having read on all of them before starting my book. But to become qualified enough by one's own research to discuss more than one suspect is a challenge and one I'm not up to. So I stay focused on LC, believe that the other suspects have been largely disproved by others.

Interesting factoid: My first publisher for JTR was an academic press, who got cold feet (as we approached publication) when they heard that "The Diary of Jack the Ripper" would come out before mine and didn't want to risk it being valid. I think that book and suspect has been dismissed as a hoax.

Suggestion: To help further the goals of the blog and further clarify your own thoughts, why don't you explain (from my "profild" or your own knowledge and sources) how you reached the conclusion that LC is a valid suspect. I totally depended on the belief that the nonsense books he wrote for children were anti-social and that he was a sociopath, and, therefore a possible suspect. If you reject that and believe that he was a Peter Pan innocent, on what basis do you conclude he should be a suspect for such violence? Or, you may conclude he should be dismissed because he doesn't fit the profile. As a follow-on we could discuss the circumstantial case against him which I presented (less the anagrams if you wish) if you continue to believe he is a suspect worth discussing.

Regards,

R. Wallace

P. S. For those who haven't read my books, an explanation is due re the "lump of sugar" LC sent when dissed by young girls when they wouldn't withdraw publication of articles he didn't like after he had given permission to use "Jabberwock" for the name of their publication:

Many who learned of the gesture fell over themselves praising him being so forgiving; "The man is a saint, a veritable saint!" As you know from reading my book AOLC, I rejected that, concluding that in his anger (or pique, if you wish) Hyde came out in spades as he reverted to his coded words and sent them a fart ("foul rump gas") for their denial of his request. Who's right?

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Raven

If you don't mind me saying so, that was a very measured and respectful response to a somewhat hasty and slightly ungenerous posting. I congratulate you on your tact...

All the best

Dave

[RavenDarkendale]

Re Peter Pan Syndrome; I understand it but haven't studied it. That said, what's behind it? What brought LC or Michael Jackson to it if he really suffered from it. I suspect pedophilia could not be far behind with adult sexual impulses wrapped in a childish psyche. What was all the crotch-grabbing in public about? That said, I don't believe LC was bedding with children or that he ever touched them carnally. LC had a number of friends both at Oxford and with many women in society in addition to the little girls.

Definition: A man who cannot or refuses to grow up

Cause: Basically childhood has been so controlled by circumstances and\or authority figures that a natural childhood becomes impossible. The sufferer then attempts to make up loss of childhood by living in a fantasy world. This would fit LC fine, as he created a MAJOR fantasy world with his Wonderland.

Michael Jackson was pushed into the world of music entertainment at a very early age. He compensated for this with his fantastic Neverland Ranch, and like LC, had many child friends. I do not think either were guilty of pedophilia.

Re your anagrams on the Ripper victim names. I'm not inclined to take any credit for inspiring them. Irrelevent and don't look like much fun. If I thought they were intended to disparage my efforts I'd send along a "lump of sugar" as the beloved LC did to Massachusetts girls he thought had dissed him.

I don't just "do" anagrams.

R Wallace

No intention of disparaging your efforts. Just fun. I have already made my points about your theories, congratulated you on the enormous effort you put into your two books. They remain in my collection, having been read cover to cover.

There are few Ripperologists who can get beyond the blinders of their favorite suspect. The common factor connecting them is physical evidence is pretty much nil. All suspects should be identified, discussed with an open mind, and eliminated for one reason or another by each scholar.

You are certainly a scholar, a Ripper Crime enthusiast, an published author, and a credible writer. Anagrams are a stupid thing about which to fall out.

Trusting that I have given you your due, which includes the exhausting labor you went through to find your anagrams, I remain someone who recognizes Lewis Carroll as a viable suspect.

God bless you immensely,

Raven Darkendale

[R Wallace]

To: Raven Darkendale

Just a brief response to your two posts. My case against Lewis Carroll after identifying him as angry enough is clearly circumstantial, with most of the JTR book laying out why he could have done the murders – opportunity, proximity, motive, etc. Since there's no extant physical evidence, that's all we have regarding any suspect.

Re Peter Pan Syndrome; I understand it but haven't studied it. That said, what's behind it? What brought LC or Michael Jackson to it if he really suffered from it. I suspect pedophilia could not be far behind with adult sexual impulses wrapped in a childish psyche. What was all the crotch-grabbing in public about? That said, I don't believe LC was bedding with children or that he ever touched them carnally. LC had a number of friends both at Oxford and with many women in society in addition to the little girls.

Re Ogden Nash, whom I haven't studied, if he truly hated his father as you say, he didn't suppress it; in fact he expressed it -- in his poetry. Maybe that was an effective outlet for his aggression. My argument re LC is that he did not express it in public, but in secret, therefore did not have an adequate outlet for it.

Re your anagrams on the Ripper victim names. I'm not inclined to take any credit for inspiring them. Irrelevent and don't look like much fun. If I thought they were intended to disparage my efforts I'd send along a "lump of sugar" as the beloved LC did to Massachusetts girls he thought had dissed him.

In any event, I've made myself available on the blog to discuss LC as a suspect and would prefer to keep the discussion to that. I don't just "do" anagrams.

R Wallace

[RavenDarkendale]

Mr. Wallace,

Now see what you've got me into!
Anagrams, anagrams, anagrams!

"Emma Smith'
anagrams to
'Tame him Ms'

'Martha Tabram'
anagrams to
'Hmm! A tart Arab!"

'Mary Ann Polly Nichols'
anagrams to
'Oh, silly, carnal, nympho.'

'Annie Chapman'
anagrams to
'Cheap 'n' in a man.'

'Elizabeth Stride'
anagrams to
"Their Laziest bed.'

'Catherine Eddows"
anagrams to
'Dead nicest whore'

'Mary Jane Kelly'
anagrams to
'My! Jerk in an alley!'

'Rose Mylett'
anagrams to
'Smelt to rye'

'Alice MacKenzie"
anagrams to
'Am Nazi, nice knee'

'Frances Coles"
anagrams to
'Of crass and lice'

Fun, but irrelevant