Does anything rule Bury out?

[johns]

Hi Herlock... and everyone else

I myself am a native of the Birmingham and Black Country area and have occasionally entertained the thought that Eddowes and Bury may have "known" each other. How close or lengthy that knowledge was we'll never know, but it still interests me.

John

[Herlock Sholmes]

A Frank Carter was listed at 295 Bethnal Green Road on the 1899 electoral register. At least one of the newspapers who reported the card found amongst Catherine Eddowes's possessions gave Carter's address as 405 Bethnal Green Road, and the others said 305.

There was also a family called Carter at 414 Bethnal Green Road in the 1881 census and one who ran the Green Gate public house at 230 Bethnal Green Road until c. 1891.

Thanks for that Paul

Regards
Herlock

[curious]

Hi Curious

I can't recall, was the possible link mentioned in Unmasking JTR? I wouldnt like to claim that I arrived at an idea if it was just a case of having read about it and forgetting that I'd read it!
I've had the thought for quite a while but I'm a fairly new poster her and I've spent most most of my posting time arguing against Lechmere's candidacy.

I live very near to both Wolverhampton and Stourbridge so I initially wondered, if they were both ever in the same pub, one might have recognised the others accent and gravitated towards them?

The Frank Carter idea is, obviously, just a notion. But if Carter couldn't be found, even after knowing his 'address' maybe he didn't actually exist? Then I thought of 'Carter as a possible hint at an occupation,' obviously Bury used a cart.

Regards
Herlock

I don't recall all the ins and outs of the possibilities with Bury, but he caught my attention at the beginning. Like you and I think a lot of others on here, I tumble things around in my head.

In any case, Bury's certainly an interesting character.

keep thinking.

curious

[PaulWilliams]

A Frank Carter was listed at 295 Bethnal Green Road on the 1899 electoral register. At least one of the newspapers who reported the card found amongst Catherine Eddowes's possessions gave Carter's address as 405 Bethnal Green Road, and the others said 305.

There was also a family called Carter at 414 Bethnal Green Road in the 1881 census and one who ran the Green Gate public house at 230 Bethnal Green Road until c. 1891.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi, Herlock,
You've hit upon one of my favorite intriguing possibilities -- Eddowes and Bury knowing each other.

However, it goes much deeper than you've already suspected. It is possible they were related. I forget exactly how it goes, but they both have Evans in their families. I believe her mother and his grandmother -- or vice versa.

Plus, the two families actually lived within a few blocks of each other in, I believe, Wolverhampton. However, by the time William Bury arrived there, Katherine Eddowes had already left with Thomas Conway, but her aunt was living there at the time Bury lived in the neighborhood.

As you see and Bill Beadle, I and many others have also seen there are interesting possibilities.

It's easy to imagine the family knowing something was bad wrong with William Henry Bury as he was growing up. Families often seem to know when they have a bad'un amongst them.

If Eddowes stayed in touch with the aunt, she could easily have known about him or gotten word through other family members. Then, she could have run into him in the East End.

Can't stop myself wondering either. . . just sorry that my memory is not working right now.

curious

Hi Curious

I can't recall, was the possible link mentioned in Unmasking JTR? I wouldnt like to claim that I arrived at an idea if it was just a case of having read about it and forgetting that I'd read it!
I've had the thought for quite a while but I'm a fairly new poster her and I've spent most most of my posting time arguing against Lechmere's candidacy.

I live very near to both Wolverhampton and Stourbridge so I initially wondered, if they were both ever in the same pub, one might have recognised the others accent and gravitated towards them?

The Frank Carter idea is, obviously, just a notion. But if Carter couldn't be found, even after knowing his 'address' maybe he didn't actually exist? Then I thought of 'Carter as a possible hint at an occupation,' obviously Bury used a cart.

Regards
Herlock

[curious]

Hi all

A couple of thoughts for what they're worth.

When Eddowes and Kelly came back from hop-picking she said that she knew who Jack the Ripper was so:

Firstly, Eddowes the prostitute would have had many clients obviously but maybe she had regulars. One's that she got to know a little better than others. A possible reason for her getting to know someone a little better would be if they had something in common; like their origins. Both Eddowes and Bury were West Midlanders. Eddowes from Wolverhampton; Bury from Stourbridge. If they'd met up in a pub for example they might have recognised each other's accents and got talking. As we know, Bury used prostitutes. Maybe Eddowes saw his darker side? Maybe he let something slip while he was drunk and a bit less guarded with someone he'd got to know pretty well?

Secondly, in her possessions after death there was a card for a Frank Carter of 305 Bethnal Green Road. The points been made before that people often took names to do with their trades (I seem to recall Sievey, a sieve maker) Well, Bury conducted his business from a cart. It's not unlikely that Bury would be the kind of character to use a false name. Might he have had a card made up to give himself the appearance of a legitimate trader? Also, I've just checked, 305 Bethnal Green Road is in the constituency of Bethnal Green and Bow. Bury, I believe, lived in Bow.

Regards
Herlock

Hi, Herlock,
You've hit upon one of my favorite intriguing possibilities -- Eddowes and Bury knowing each other.

However, it goes much deeper than you've already suspected. It is possible they were related. I forget exactly how it goes, but they both have Evans in their families. I believe her mother and his grandmother -- or vice versa.

Plus, the two families actually lived within a few blocks of each other in, I believe, Wolverhampton. However, by the time William Bury arrived there, Katherine Eddowes had already left with Thomas Conway, but her aunt was living there at the time Bury lived in the neighborhood.

As you see and Bill Beadle, I and many others have also seen there are interesting possibilities.

It's easy to imagine the family knowing something was bad wrong with William Henry Bury as he was growing up. Families often seem to know when they have a bad'un amongst them.

If Eddowes stayed in touch with the aunt, she could easily have known about him or gotten word through other family members. Then, she could have run into him in the East End.

Can't stop myself wondering either. . . just sorry that my memory is not working right now.

curious

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi all

A couple of thoughts for what they're worth.

When Eddowes and Kelly came back from hop-picking she said that she knew who Jack the Ripper was so:

Firstly, Eddowes the prostitute would have had many clients obviously but maybe she had regulars. One's that she got to know a little better than others. A possible reason for her getting to know someone a little better would be if they had something in common; like their origins. Both Eddowes and Bury were West Midlanders. Eddowes from Wolverhampton; Bury from Stourbridge. If they'd met up in a pub for example they might have recognised each other's accents and got talking. As we know, Bury used prostitutes. Maybe Eddowes saw his darker side? Maybe he let something slip while he was drunk and a bit less guarded with someone he'd got to know pretty well?

Secondly, in her possessions after death there was a card for a Frank Carter of 305 Bethnal Green Road. The points been made before that people often took names to do with their trades (I seem to recall Sievey, a sieve maker) Well, Bury conducted his business from a cart. It's not unlikely that Bury would be the kind of character to use a false name. Might he have had a card made up to give himself the appearance of a legitimate trader? Also, I've just checked, 305 Bethnal Green Road is in the constituency of Bethnal Green and Bow. Bury, I believe, lived in Bow.

Regards
Herlock

[Paddy]

The sister of Burys wife was supposed t have said that her sister worked in a brothel and Bury met her there.
Is it known where this brothel was?

Pat..

[Abby Normal]

Plenty of evil bastards mentioned in relation to JtR to choose from though

Deeming
Tumblety
Bury
Kelly
Holmes

And on and on.

Trouble is I doubt any of those was Jack.

Deeming wasn't there
Tumblety maybe
Bury. Well that's just redundant.
Kelly. Of course.
Holmes. No. unless you mean Larry Holmes. Then maybe.

[GUT]

I'm not sure where this ones going lol.

But bury is a piece of work. I would not rule that m out as the ripper. He's a evil bastard any way you cut it.

Plenty of evil bastards mentioned in relation to JtR to choose from though

Deeming
Tumblety
Bury
Kelly
Holmes

And on and on.

Trouble is I doubt any of those was Jack.

[Abby Normal]

I get your point, but I just looked out the window and noticed the man walking two dogs past my house. Of course, neither the man nor the dogs looked familiar to me (unlike the woman in a wheelchair who often passes by with her service dog), so that's probably a good observation.

I'm not sure where this ones going lol.

But bury is a piece of work. I would not rule that m out as the ripper. He's a evil bastard any way you cut it.

[Pcdunn]

But there are so many invisible people....

The postman
The mum walking down the street with their kids
The policeman
Even your neighbour

You don't see them, because they are so common you just don't notice them at all.

I get your point, but I just looked out the window and noticed the man walking two dogs past my house. Of course, neither the man nor the dogs looked familiar to me (unlike the woman in a wheelchair who often passes by with her service dog), so that's probably a good observation.

[GUT]

Hmm... Maybe, but horses aren't that quiet, especially clip-clopping along dark, silent streets where various potential witnesses claim they "didn't see or hear a soul."

I'm of the opinion that the denizens of Whitechapel all lied about never seeing anyone around the neighborhoods of the Ripper crimes.

Either that, or the Ripper was the Invisible Man.

But there are so many invisible people....

The postman
The mum walking down the street with their kids
The policeman
Even your neighbour

You don't see them, because they are so common you just don't notice them at all.

[Pcdunn]

A sort of getaway cart?

Hmm... Maybe, but horses aren't that quiet, especially clip-clopping along dark, silent streets where various potential witnesses claim they "didn't see or hear a soul."

I'm of the opinion that the denizens of Whitechapel all lied about never seeing anyone around the neighborhoods of the Ripper crimes.

Either that, or the Ripper was the Invisible Man.

[Observer]

Bury had the advantage of a horse & cart, so this point is moot.

A sort of getaway cart?