Assessing the case against W.H.Bury

[Billy Bulger]

There is no mention anywhere that Bury confessed to the hangman. James Berry the hangman's memoirs were serialised and they were published after his death (in 1913) in Thomson's Weekly News in 1927. Berry's full account of the execution of Bury is given there.

Hi guys, I wouldnt really look too deeply into 'confessions' made by Bury or on behalf of him. Trevor Marriot (21st Century Investigation) vehemently argues that Carl Feigenbaum's (forgive my spelling if incorrect lol) lawyer spoke of similar confessions made by his client prior to his execution. And then there's Neil Cream...

Has any author written a full length account of William Bury?

[Sam Flynn]

Hi BB,

Has any author written a full length account of William Bury?

There are two books that I can happily recommend - William Beadle, Jack the Ripper: Anatomy of a Myth; and Euan Macpherson, The Trial of Jack the Ripper. Be very aware, though, that information about Bury's real life is practically non-existent, and that much of the narrative contained in both books is mainly speculative reconstruction, based on a few scant news reports and trial records. Sometimes this "reconstructed biography", though ingenious, tries too hard to prove a point. This is usually achieved either by exaggerating a fragment of newspaper reportage, or by plugging a gap without reference to a primary source at all. Overall, Macpherson's is the more sober account of the story, and he tends to avoid straying too far from the known sources. Beadle does the opposite, but his book is nonetheless a cracking good read.

[Suzi]

Hi Sam! -( I LOVE THE IDEA THAT YOU RECOMMEND 'HAPPILY'!!!! [must remember that!!]

I agree the Macpherson is a good read and the tantalising 'I am/was Ja....' always slightly amuses me -in a rather dark way!....'and furthermore.......................' hehe

For daftness (but a good romp)- though I love 'The Night of the Ripper' by Robert (Psycho) Bloch -it's who ISN'T in it that amuses me!!!..Total toot but beautifully written...sadly no MOTHER in Miller's Court though! I've got a gorgeous first edition here and every now and again it comes out!!!!!!!!!!.........and gets read! He he xxxx
Suz x

[Suzi]

Just found some interesting stuff- as a girl does...I hate to say it the last bit re the Penny Farthing champion merely shared a name...well I assume he did!

This was re Margaret Crabb who was arrested for 'swearing' and 'bawling out' and 'behaving in a 'turbulent manner''...Cost 10 shillings!!- Bargain I say!!!!




Cant get the Margaret Crabb up to size sadly Google her...she sounds a lot of fun!!

[stevebaker25]

While I don't know an awful lot about this particular theory, from what I've read maybe Bury killing his wife was out of necessity more than the compulsive acts that has become known as the JTR murders. That's if you want to look at the Ripper as compulsive and not planned. Personally I think it was well organized but I'm sure that's another thread.
The way I read it, if you want to entertain the idea of Bury being the Ripper, it was the wife that wrote the messages about Jack The Ripper on the walls. Maybe she had threatened to tell the authorities? Afterall, she would be in a better position than anyone to know whether he was out all night on the particular nights. Moreover, what's this I read about a chopper being found in Millers Court? That can't be true can it?
I duno, there's an awful lot about this that's wide open to debate, I think. But he's a much better suspect than a lot of the ones put forward. To be honest though even if it was proven, which it can't be, some people would still not accept it
Their lives would be over if this case was to ever be solved

[Mrsperfect]

Steve..............

This simply won't do! You've distinguished between the murder of necessity and the murders of choice! What's wrong with you?

How on earth can you consider Bury to be a suspect, when Sam Flynn knows he's simply a wife beater/murderer? Such balanced posts as yours are unacceptable!

Everybody knows it's a mere co-incidence that Bury simply cruised into London prior to the Tabram murder and cruised out again just after the last one. Relocating to Scotland where, low and behold, another murder victim was discovered!

It's a mere co-incidence that he was known to have had a drink in Whitechapel and didn't always go home each night, (so his wife said). He had a horse and cart and the opportunity to explore the terrain. We won't even talk about his knife fetish, (he slept with a penknife under his pillow)

No, I think you'd be better off concentrating on suspects who were either too old, too rich and famous or too artistic, (or banged up) like the majority of people do and leave the five or six of us who actually think Bury is a credible suspect to be pitied.

Bury murdered his wife and no one heard anything. He lived with her body for days and still no one suspected foul play, until he went to the police with the 'suicide story'.

Regards

Eileen

[Mrsperfect]

Weapon found in street

Steve

Here is an extract from my post on 'The Life on William Henry Bury'. I don't know about any chopper found in Miller's court. By the way, Bury used to write Ellen's letters for her, so I don't know if she was up to writing the graffito in their flat.


The night after Eddowes died, Thomas Coram found a blood-stained knife, (dried blood), on the doorstep of a laundry at 252 Whitechapel Road………..near where a policeman said he remembered lending a hand to a man. The man’s horse had fallen down at that very spot. A lady at the laundry had let a woman out no more than an hour before and the policeman had patrolled that street a number of times that night, so the knife couldn’t have been there for more than 15 minutes. Why would an innocent person throw away a good knife? This was the same night Bury went ‘berserk’ when he got home. (Perhaps he couldn’t find his knife in the dark)?

Regards

Eileen

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Eileen,

This was the same night Bury went ‘berserk’ when he got home.

What's the source for that story?

[Sam Flynn]

Sam Flynn knows he's simply a wife beater/murderer?

That's what he was, as far as we - and the Law - know, Eileen.

Everybody knows it's a mere co-incidence that Bury simply cruised into London prior to the Tabram murder

Do we know that?

and cruised out again just after the last one.

Mid/end January 1889 is not "just after" - it's "more than two months after".

Relocating to Scotland where, low and behold, another murder victim was discovered!

Another domestic murder victim was discovered, indoors, by a man who turned himself into the police.

It's a mere co-incidence that he was known to have had a drink in Whitechapel

We have witness testimony relating to ONE instance of Bury being in a Whitechapel pub. Whitechapel is a large district, and Bury lived in another district on the far eastern side of Whitchapel - most of the Ripper murders occurred in the western part of Whitechapel, or in Spitalfields.

He had a horse and cart

Which gets around the fact that he lived two to three miles away from the action, but unfortunately introduces a "clip-clopping" factor, the absence of which in the C5 murders - Diemschutz apart - needs to be explained.

and the opportunity to explore the terrain.

We could claim the same for him and a hundred thousand others.

We won't even talk about his knife fetish

No, let's not - on the basis that it is only conjecture.

he slept with a penknife under his pillow

Perhaps he was keeping a dream diary, Eileen

[fido]

As I remember Bill Beadle's very good book, he makes a very interesting topographical case about Bury's potential access to and movement to and from the Ripper murder sites.
All the best,
Martin F

[Mrsperfect]

Like I said Sam..........

we're to be pitied!

Yes Martin, I thought the same about Bill Beadle's book. It shows Bury had 'opportunity' and as Bill Beadle is a copper's son, (not to mention a member of Mensa) this smart cookie didn't look on Bury as simply a wife murderer.

I believe he mentioned Bury 'going berserk' when he went home the night that Chapman was murdered. (I would also like to know his source for this snippet of info, Sam).

We know Bury was new to London in Oct 1887 because a news report from the Express and Star (a Black Country paper) dated Wednesday 13th February 1889 stated:

'During the summer of 1887 Bury made a living as a hawker, selling items such as lead pencils and toy rings on the streets in Snow Hill, Birmingham'.

I suspect Bury would have left London sooner, if he didn't have to convince his wife to go to Scotland with a violent drunkard of a husband. Perhaps she wanted to spend Christmas in familiar surroundings? He was in a hurry to get his hands on what was left of her money, sooner rather than later.

I have to disagree, the knife fetish is more than conjecture. Ellen told her sister Margaret, (who testified that Bury slept with the knife under his pillow) and when confronted with the evidence, (by Ellen) Bury denied putting it there....... on more than one occasion!

I see Bury's transport in a different light. He had the ability to frequent places those on foot may not. A horse and cart stabled nearby was a way of storing another set of clothing, without attracting attention. This was also a reason for Bury to be in the area, (sleeping off a night's drinking) using the cart as a convenient bed, when he was too drunk to ride home. I would imagine water for his horse would have been handy for washing off blood etc

We're making progress I feel..........when I first joined Casebook there was no evidence of Bury frequenting Whitechapel at all. It was thought he was in Wolverhampton at the time of Tabram's death. Both of these assumptions were laid to rest (by Johns, Casebook member).

This proves we have the luxury of time on our side, who knows what information may come to light in the future................ even after 120 years!

Regards

Eileen

[johns]

Hi all

The one "aspect" of the Bury case I would love to find some evidence of (apart from High Definition footage of him murdering half a dozen women in 1888 ) is the "Dewsbury Business"

I put "aspect" in inverted commas because I don't think Bury being in Dewsbury has ever been proved. Only conjecture as far as I know.

It was in Dewsbury that Bury allegedly slaughtered horses too.

[Mrsperfect]

The Dewsbury Incident

G'day Johns

I would also like to know more about the Dewsbury angle, I believe one of our Casebookers (Will?) unearthed info that Bury was up on charges in Dewsbury for vagrancy.

It was my understanding that this was independent of the newspaper article I referred to in my previous post. It's the small piece of Bury's early life that we don't really know about, isn't it?

Wouldn't it be interesting if he was a horse slaughterer there?

Regards

Eileen

[John Wheat]

Talking Sense

Mrs Perfect talks alot of sense if you ask me. A man who is a proven pyschopath who moved to London shortly before the Ripper murders moved out at the first opportunity after the Ripper murders proceeded to strangle his wife then mutilate her gentitals and stomach in the process ripping out twelve feet of her intestines through the hole in her stomach has to be considered as an etremely strong candidate.

Also Bury is either a copycat killer or Jack the Ripper as the chalk confessions were obviously his however there is a major floor with Bury being a copycat killer. Copyat killer's tend to confess to the murders of the murderer there copying at any opportunity if Bury was a copycat killer then why did he not clearly confess all to the police?

[Sam Flynn]

Hi John,

A man who is a proven pyschopath

A proven wife-murderer, certainly, and there's some evidence that points to psychopathic characteristics in his behaviour. It's tricky to diagnose mental illness at a distance of 120 years, however, so we can't say that he was a "proven psychopath", unless he was diagnosed as such at the time.

who moved to London shortly before the Ripper murders moved out at the first opportunity after the Ripper murders

He moved to London in Autumn 1887, got married there in April 1888. He left London for Dundee, with his wife, nearly three months after Mary Kelly's murder.

proceeded to strangle his wife then mutilate her gentitals and stomach.

A handful of stab-like wounds, and one cut of about a few inches in length, which pales into insignificance alongside even Polly Nichols' murder, let alone those of Chapman, Eddowes or Kelly. Or even Tabram's, for that matter.

in the process ripping out twelve feet of her intestines through the hole in her stomach

This didn't happen, I'm afraid. He squashed Ellen into a box, as a probable result of which a small section of her bowel protruded out of one of the abdominal cuts.

has to be considered as an etremely strong candidate.

This is debatable, at least inasmuch as the evidence shows that, compared to the even the least horrendous of the eviscerating murders of Jack the Ripper, Ellen Bury got off extremely lightly.