Assessing the case against W.H.Bury

[dixon9]

obviously William Bury looks to be high on the list of suspects,a couple of things that are nagging me,his lodgings in Bow are (in walking terms) a fair old trot from the murder scenes.Would he have not be spotted (if blood was on him) travelling that far?Also only living in london about five months how well would he have known the routes home?
I have read Ellen saying he did stay out for days at a time,so that could be the answer but surely someone would have noticed his apperance etc?

Oh well please be gentle with me,but thats my reasoning behind (at the moment)why i cant have WHB as a major suspect,until one of you put me right.

[Septic Blue]

... his lodgings in Bow ...

Most written accounts of Bury's tenure in London's 'East End' suggest that he resided in 'Bow'. These accounts are incorrect: All of Bury's known London residences, during the period in question, were in the Parish of Bromley St. Leonard, not the Parish of St. Mary Stratford Bow.

Bromley!

Bury lived in Bromley!

[thegaff]

hi all ive started on various suspects and tried to build on them but they all go to the wall but with bury everything keeps building more and more and more infact the more i read new things like on here ive learnt more details the people who doubt try to write him off by thinking too literally with there thinking you therefore discredit him but your eyes are blinded by facts one doubt is he stabbed her but didnt rip her 4 inches is a rip ans all ripper victims had stabs also he also went back to the body and played about with her insides no one mentions that , jtr was interested in the insides ellen bury was his wife they came home drunk someone doubts that a man like jtr cant be drunk and be jtr yes you can the adrenaline can override the alcohocol and he did drink heavily so he was used to it thats all i say for now mrs perfect id like to chat with you on him and swap info on him please yours martin

Martin, is this a stream of consciousness? Your ability to drop full stops and punctuation is almost an art.

Bury is simply the most convincing suspect we have. The evidence against him is not just circumstantial but also matches Bury in terms of timing and profiling. If only we had a photograph of him we could probably add witness evidence to the list.

[dixon9]

thanks for the reply blue

so his lodgings at 3 swaton road,11 blackthorn st and 3 spanby road were not bow in the east end?

Thanks again for putting me right

[Sam Flynn]

Bromley!

Bury lived in Bromley!

That's Bromley by Bow... as opposed to the London Borough of Bromley, which is south of the Thames by a considerable distance. Bow, as shorthand, is arguably a lesser evil than using "just" Bromley.

[Septic Blue]

That's Bromley by Bow...

That's Gunthorpe Street …

That's Durward Street …

That's Henriques Street …

That's Duval Street … actually … That's whatever-the-hell the name of that service road is …

... as opposed to the London Borough of Bromley, which is south of the Thames by a considerable distance.

Thanks for the lesson in London's political geography! To whom shall I write the cheque?

Bow, as shorthand, is arguably a lesser evil than using "just" Bromley.

That, which is totally incorrect (e.g. "Bow", in this instance) is indeed "evil".

Whereas that, which is correct (e.g. "Bromley", in this instance) is anything but "evil".

[Sam Flynn]

Thanks for the lesson in London's political geography! To whom shall I write the cheque?

Make it out to "The Society of People Who've Actually Lived There".

[dixon9]

sorry this really my be a stupid question,but did (WHB) lodge in the east end when married to Ellen?

Again apologises if it has been answered

[dixon9]

sorry should read *maybe a stupid question

[thegaff]

And Bromley-by-Bow I can tell you is walking distance of Whitechapel because I used to live there. Mile End is also within Bromley-by-Bow. Area postcode is E3 and local constituency is Tower Hamlets. It's a good walk though and would take an hour but depends how fit you are.

[Roy Corduroy]

Tidbits

did (WHB) lodge in the east end when married to Ellen?

Yes Dixon, you could say they lodged in the "greater East End", that is, out in Bromley, which is by the River Lea.

In addition to his book, Bill Beadle also wrote an article Where We Are With Bury contained onsite. (click) In it are some interesting tidbits, to quote:

His (Bury) ...early childhood was horrendous. Within a year of his birth he lost his elder sister to 'status epilepticus', a series of recurring epileptic fits running into each other, his mother was packed off to a lunatic asylum and his father was killed in a carting accident, his body ripped asunder up the middle.

The police later established that Bury was out all night on the dates of the murders. When he returned home after the death of Annie Chapman he is reported to have behaved like a 'madman'

The police also discovered Bury had been a horsemeat butcher, cutting the meat up for cats' food..

...also that 'Polly' Nichols was wearing a jacket with a man leading a horse emblazoned on it. (end quote)

Roy

[thegaff]

Hi Septic Blue,

Not actually sure what you are talking about here. But you seem to question Sam Flynn's geography which I can verify is entirely correct. I do have a geography degree (I think it is worth mentioning at this point). Oh, and I did live there as well. That probably amounts to primary geographical knowledge.

[Roy Corduroy]

I do have a geography degree. Oh, and I did live there as well.

Hi Gaff,

That's great. I like geography and from here in the US, I am learning lots about the area being a part of this forum. Everyone is so helpful. You are all right in your way. I think what Blue is getting at is that Bromley-by-Bow is a modern usage. Here's some info I found on the Wiki about it:

Bromley-by-Bow, historically and officially Bromley, is a place in the London Borough of Tower Hamlets.

In 1967, the London Underground station at Bromley was renamed to Bromley-by-Bow to distinguish it from the stations at Bromley in the London Borough of Bromley some 8 miles (12.9 km) to the south. Over time the station's name has extended to the area and today it is nearly always known as Bromley-by-Bow. (end quote)

Again, nice to make your acquaintance.

Roy

[thegaff]

I have a copy of the brilliant "Anatomy of a Myth" to hand. One of the things that strikes me is that I cannot find a mere mention of Bury until page 155 of 170 which gives credence to Beadle's contextual analysis.

Beadle is our secondary source of information on the subject and he confirms that Bury lives simply in "Bow". He lived in Quickett Street (no longer exists) then Swaton Road and from this address I can confirm that Bow actually refers to "Bromley-by-Bow" i.e. the East-End and not Bromley in Kent which has no reference to Bow whatsoever apart from a linguistical synonymn. After this he moved to Blackthorne Road and then Spanby Road, also in the East End. Quickett Street was a part of Poplar. I would guess the other streets were in the same district as they were in close proximity.

So to summarise, don't be confused and don't be told otherwise. Bury lived in the very thick of it and had more access than any of the other suspects. But whether he killed them I do not know.

On a totally different note, the other things I liked about Beadle's totally indifferent approach was his corroboration of Maxwell who I always thought was an important witness. Why she is readily discounted by some more important members of this board is beyond me. She was heavily questioned under oath and under duress and never buckled. She just seemed too sure for me to discount her. This is something that is actually recorded and not just hearsay and therefore something that we can rely on.

[thegaff]

Thanks for clearing that up Rob, these nuances of language dialects and of history itself do make things complicated. However I never realised that Bromley-by-Bow was simply "Bow" at the time although it makes pragmatic sense of course. (see I am always prepared to admit my inadequancies). However I would question the officially bit, Bromley is nowhere near Bromley-by-Bow on a murderer's compass. Bromley is outside London to the south, and as we know, London is very very big.

Nice to meet you too my friend. And thanks for Beadle's link "Where we are with Bury". I await his next edition.