Assessing the case against W.H.Bury

[Wyatt Earp]

Another way to put it is this: if you accept that the Goulston Street graffito was the work of the Ripper, as many here do, then the fact that it was described as having been written in a schoolboy hand has to be considered something of an oddity. I don't think many here believe the Ripper to have been a schoolboy. Bury and his capacity for "several hands" explains that oddity.

[The Grave Maurice]

I don't think many here believe the Ripper to have been a schoolboy.

True. The phrase was more likely meant to refer to the style of the writing rather than the age of the writer.

[Wyatt Earp]

The phrase was more likely meant to refer to the style of the writing rather than the age of the writer.

Yes, that's right. One could argue that any given suspect might have faked the style of handwriting, but that would be less easy to do for a suspect who had not previously demonstrated this behavior. Or one would need to explain how a given suspect's handwriting might have been underdeveloped. Or of course one could try to minimize or dismiss the significance of the description itself.

But getting back to Bury, it's worth mentioning that there is one misspelled word in his forged letter ("Ogilvy" for Ogilvie), in the Princes Street chalkings ("seller" for cellar) and in the Goulston Street graffito ("Juwes" for Jews). If one wanted to assign all of these to Bury, one could suggest that he wasn't a very good speller, or one could suggest that deliberately misspelling a word was a behavioral tic of his.

[Wyatt Earp]

Just a quick follow-up on the spelling issue. On pages 64 and 65 of Macpherson and on page 297 of the 2009 Beadle book the text of other letters Bury wrote is given. I do not see a single spelling mistake. This is not a guy who would have spelled cellar as "seller" unless he was doing it deliberately.

[Wyatt Earp]

I think Bury must have done it, but it hardly makes him Jack the Ripper.
When he arrived in Scotland he and his wife were 'ragged' by Dundonians along the lines of 'oh you're from the East End, that must mean you know Jack the Ripper'. The wife laughed it off - probably a tiresome and commonplace jibe that people from the East End had to put up at the time. Bury shrank away. He already had her coffin ready by then though.
I think the only evidence that Bury drank in Whitechapel comes from Scottish papers (eg one from Aberdeen I think). In my opinion when they said this it really meant 'East End'. The nuances of which district was which would have been beyond them. To them, in the aftermath of the Ripper publicity and with a murderer in Scotland who had just arrived from the East End, it would be natural to say he drank in Whitechapel (meaning the East End) when really the only evidence was that he went out late drinking - more likely just in Bow (or Bromley-by-Bow).
Bury was clearly an unpleasant character but also an idiot and a loser. He hatched the most stupid premeditated murder I have ever read about. He probably self importantly fantasised that he was a ripper, hence the minor stabs at his wife's abdomen. And hence the scrawling, and possibly hence his cryptic remarks to the hangman (if true).

I think that Bury's local "notoriety" because of his association with the East End can be the only real explanation of schoolboy authorship of the chalkings, as we know the chalkings were not made in the aftermath of his arrest (the chalkings were present when police first examined his residence per Beadle, 2009, p.247-8). However this notoriety could also be an explanation for Bury's own authorship of the chalkings. Perhaps he had a problem with kids snooping around out back and he decided to chalk these messages there to scare them off. He wouldn't have wanted to write them in his own hand as this would have been self-incriminating. This way if he was ever confronted about the messages he could always say "Oh, there must have been some kids goofing around out back." If you believe that Bury chalked the messages, I do not think it is necessary to view them as some sort of fantasy or confession.

[Wyatt Earp]

Here is an additional thought about this. During Bury's second week at Princes Street, in the period immediately following, in Macpherson's opinion, his murder of Ellen, there were some changes at his residence. Whereas before he had left the front door open, he now "always took the precaution of closing it" (p. 79) and "the blind was drawn down over the Burys' back window...and remained drawn all week" (p. 80). I think this supports the idea that Bury chalked the messages in order to scare people off, as it could have been part of this larger effort to keep people away from the residence.

[Ashkenaz]

The Dundee flat graffiti as reproduced in both Macpherson and Beadle's books...

I would suggest that the "back of this door" graffiti looks to be in a more mature hand than the "sellar" graffiti..

As the police said, it's likely Scottish youngsters poking fun as the new neigbours with their strange English accents

[John Wheat]

I think it's odds on Bury wrote both of the chalk messages.

[Abby Normal]

As the police said, it's likely Scottish youngsters poking fun as the new neigbours with their strange English accents

This is probably correct

[Cogidubnus]

There's no evidence at all that either William or Ellen wrote either grafitto...as the door concerned was publicly accessible at the rear of the building, the odds are, that, as suggested by the local press, it was a comment, (either pre or post mortem) by the local youth who were simply linking with the London connection...

All the best

Dave

[John Wheat]

There's no evidence at all that either William or Ellen wrote either grafitto...as the door concerned was publicly accessible at the rear of the building, the odds are, that, as suggested by the local press, it was a comment, (either pre or post mortem) by the local youth who were simply linking with the London connection...

To Dave

There's also no evidence to suggest the chalk messages were written by the local children. Also one of the chalk messages was written inside the residence which the children would have had no access too. Plus Bury wouldn't have talked with a London accent and why would the children know he'd been in London?

Cheers John

[Cogidubnus]

Hi John

There's also no evidence to suggest the chalk messages were written by the local children.

But the local police thought so....and so did the local paper, the Courier, (who you'd not normally expect to play down the matter)...

Also one of the chalk messages was written inside the residence which the children would have had no access too

The first message was written on the cellar door, the second was within at the turn of the stair leading to the ash pit...unless you know for a fact that the cellar door was locked, (to stop people stealing the ash perhaps?) then children might well have had access...

Plus Bury wouldn't have talked with a London accent and why would the children know he'd been in London?

The Bury's made no secret of where they'd come from...and in those distant days of little other outside amusement, knowing all about your neighbours came as second nature...I expect the entire neighbourhood knew where they'd come from within days (if not hours) of their arrival...

All the best

Dave

[John Wheat]

Hello Dave

Why would the local children write the chalk messages? Just because Bury had come from London doesn't really cut it. Also why would the local children have access to Bury's cellar? Considering Bury murdered his wife in the residence I doubt Bury would leave his cellar unlocked for people to poke around or listen to what was going off in the flat.

Cheers John

[Cogidubnus]

Hi John

So far as I'm aware this was an "outside back cellar" totally unconnected with the flat...probably separated by a solid concrete floor...during my childhood both my grandparents and my Uncle/Aunt lived in buildings with a similar arrangement...and the cellar doors were always left unlocked...simply because there was little (if anything, apart from possibly a few gardening bits and pieces) of value left in there...

The front cellar was different because there was a coal chute there (for deliveries) plus access to the house...but I don't think the Bury's had a front cellar...at least it's not mentioned...

Why wouldn't the local kids write messages? They had no TV, no Playstations or X-boxes, no smartphones...so to amuse themselves they explored, and pretended, and played at adventures, and dared each other to do slightly iffy things, just like kids always have (at least up to my days anyway!)...and if there were newly-arrived folk from such an exotic place as London, where exciting things were happening, then the odds were they'd latch onto this straightaway...

All the best

Dave

[John Wheat]

So far as I'm aware this was an "outside back cellar" totally unconnected with the flat...probably separated by a solid concrete floor...Why wouldn't the local kids write messages? They had no TV, no Playstations or X-boxes, no smartphones...so to amuse themselves they explored, and pretended, and played at adventures, and dared each other to do slightly iffy things, just like kids always have (at least up to my days anyway!)...and if there were newly-arrived folk from such an exotic place as London, where exciting things were happening, then the odds were they'd latch onto this straightaway...

Hello Dave

I wasn't aware the Bury's cellar was an 'outside back cellar. Fair points about the kids. I still believe Bury wrote both the messages though.

Cheers John