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Verified accounts of William Bury being in Whitechapel

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  • Verified accounts of William Bury being in Whitechapel

    Hi. I have read various parts of the Dundee Trial press reports regarding William Bury's time in London but have only
    seen one account where Bury was actually said to have been 'in' Whitechapel (witnessed assulting his wife at a Public house).

    Does anybody have evidence to confirm he was a regular in Whitechapel (either for work or 'Leisure' purposes) as opposed to keeping to
    his local borough of Bromley by Bow ?


  • #2
    Hi Tanfield,

    I don’t know if your aware of this website dedicated to Bury as a ripper candidate? It might have the information that you’re looking for. I hope it helps.

    http://www.williambury.org/
    Regards

    Herlock




    “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
    “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
    “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
    “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
    “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'll have a look - Cheers

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Tanfield View Post
        Does anybody have evidence to confirm he was a regular in Whitechapel (either for work or 'Leisure' purposes) as opposed to keeping to
        his local borough of Bromley by Bow ?
        Good question. The answer is that I don't think that there's any evidence to that effect. No doubt he would often have been in Whitechapel, as would most people in the East End, at least when places like Spitalfields Market and Petticoat Lane were open - which didn't exactly coincide with the Ripper's favourite times of the day. In the evenings, I can't see much reason that Bury would have frequented Whitechapel on a regular basis as there were plenty of pubs closer to his home in Bromley-by-Bow, and plenty of potential victims for "Bury the Ripper" to choose from.
        Kind regards, Sam Flynn

        "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

        Comment


        • #5
          When we read that Eddowes believed that she knew the identity of the ripper I’ve often wonderful whether this could have been Bury? Pure speculation of course based only on the fact that they were both from the same neck of the woods. Might they have been in the same pub at some point and they picked out the Black Country accent amongst the cockney ones? Could Bury have become a regular of Catherine’s? Absolutely no way of knowing of course
          Regards

          Herlock




          “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
          “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
          “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
          “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
          “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
            When we read that Eddowes believed that she knew the identity of the ripper I’ve often wonderful whether this could have been Bury? Pure speculation of course based only on the fact that they were both from the same neck of the woods. Might they have been in the same pub at some point and they picked out the Black Country accent amongst the cockney ones?
            Well, there were hundreds of pubs in East London, and Eddowes and Bury lived in different parts of the East End - Bury only having arrived in London a year before the Ripper murders - so the odds of their having become acquainted is very, very small, I'd have thought.
            Could Bury have become a regular of Catherine’s?
            Bury was in his mid-20s and reasonably solvent, and there were plenty of women closer to his own age, and closer to home than a 40-something resident of Whitechapel. Also, not wishing to come across as Rubenholdesque, there really is no evidence to suggest that Eddowes was herself a regular prostitute, so the chances of Eddowes getting to know Bury even on a "professional" basis is also unlikely.
            Kind regards, Sam Flynn

            "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

            Comment


            • #7
              And of course, Bury couldn't have been the ripper if you believe Mckenzie was a ripper victim.


              The Baron

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by The Baron View Post
                And of course, Bury couldn't have been the ripper if you believe Mckenzie was a ripper victim.


                The Baron
                Mackenzie couldn’t have been a ripper victim because Druitt was dead
                Regards

                Herlock




                “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
                “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
                “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
                “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
                “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have not read as deeply into the Mackenzie murder as some of the C5 and certainly not for a long time - From what i have read its entirely possible she was a JTR victim and that of course, as you say, rules out Bury (and others). I think I will go back and look at all the Mackenzie posts.. In the meantime, on Bury, two other things (plus manner others!!) do keep nagging away and i would welcome some views ;-

                  1) If Bury was JTR why are their no similar victims in Dundee (by that i mean potential random individuals/vulnerable street walkers at night) ? I dont include Ellen as being a potential JTR victim in this way.

                  2) Can the differences in the murder of Ellen v C5 be explained by the killer knowing the victim ? I can clearly see there may be a case that a killer's would have completely different emotions when killing someone unknown to them (that is a representation of some fantasy or desire) as to someone they have personal relationship with (both good or bad).

                  Is there any evidence that other serial killers have killed randomly with a certain aggression/desire and have then also killed their own family members/partners in a different manner and exhibiting different emotions ?







                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Mackenzie couldn't have been a Ripper victim because Cohen was confined.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tanfield View Post
                      Hi. I have read various parts of the Dundee Trial press reports regarding William Bury's time in London but have only
                      seen one account where Bury was actually said to have been 'in' Whitechapel (witnessed assulting his wife at a Public house).

                      Does anybody have evidence to confirm he was a regular in Whitechapel (either for work or 'Leisure' purposes) as opposed to keeping to
                      his local borough of Bromley by Bow ?
                      The 2/12/89 edition of The Scotsman reported that Bury was “well known in Whitechapel” and the 2/14/89 edition of The Dundee Courier reported that Bury was “well known in the locality.” Both of these reports suggest that Bury was a frequent visitor to the area. We are fortunate to have the trial testimony of James Martin, Bury’s former employer, as his description of one and possibly two drunken incidents involving Bury in Whitechapel helps to corroborate the newspaper reports.

                      For Bury to have been the Whitechapel murderer, he obviously has to have been physically capable of committing the crimes. So what do we know about Bury? According to his Dewsbury prison record, Bury was 5’2”, meaning he was a short man, but according to one newspaper report, Bury seemed to have “a powerful chest and shoulders,” which suggests that he was strong enough to overcome the victims in the case. We know that Bury’s geographical range extended into the Whitechapel area, and we know that as a self-employed sawdust merchant, he was able to set his own hours. All of the available evidence is telling us that, yes, he was physically capable of committing the murders.

                      “When a major serial killer case is finally solved and all the paperwork completed, police are sometimes amazed at how obvious the killer was and how they were unable to see what was right before their noses.” —Robert D. Keppel and William J. Birnes, The Psychology of Serial Killer Investigations

                      William Bury, Victorian Murderer
                      http://www.williambury.org

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tanfield View Post
                        1) If Bury was JTR why are their no similar victims in Dundee (by that i mean potential random individuals/vulnerable street walkers at night) ? I dont include Ellen as being a potential JTR victim in this way.
                        It looks like Bury stopped after the Kelly murder. It’s possible that something spooked him, ultimately resulting in his departure from London. According to Bury’s own statement, his murder of Ellen was not premeditated (it might have arisen out of an argument). Of course, had Bury not been taken into custody and hanged, he could well have resumed murdering women at some point.

                        2) Can the differences in the murder of Ellen v C5 be explained by the killer knowing the victim ? I can clearly see there may be a case that a killer's would have completely different emotions when killing someone unknown to them (that is a representation of some fantasy or desire) as to someone they have personal relationship with (both good or bad).

                        Is there any evidence that other serial killers have killed randomly with a certain aggression/desire and have then also killed their own family members/partners in a different manner and exhibiting different emotions ?
                        I’d question that we are seeing a different “emotion” on display at Princes Street. Bury bashed Ellen in the head, rendering her semi-conscious or unconscious, he strangled her to death with a cord, he mutilated her face, abdomen and genitals, opening her abdomen in the process, and he broke one of her legs to put her into that demented and degrading position in the trunk. He really did a number on her.


                        “When a major serial killer case is finally solved and all the paperwork completed, police are sometimes amazed at how obvious the killer was and how they were unable to see what was right before their noses.” —Robert D. Keppel and William J. Birnes, The Psychology of Serial Killer Investigations

                        William Bury, Victorian Murderer
                        http://www.williambury.org

                        Comment

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