Verified accounts of William Bury being in Whitechapel

Thanks John may be a few weeks just waiting for archives to open but it's quite good I reckon

[John Wheat]

Wow thank you sir, actually I used to post here as boggles but I lost me login details but I maintain a keen interest in this suspect, and in fact I am working on something on this which I will soon post and which I hope will hold some small interest to the bury people and others happen to read it

Welcome back Boggles/Welcome Wiggins. I look forward to reading any of your further posts.

Cheers John

Wow thank you sir, actually I used to post here as boggles but I lost me login details but I maintain a keen interest in this suspect, and in fact I am working on something on this which I will soon post and which I hope will hold some small interest to the bury people and others happen to read it

[The Baron]

Good first post Wiggins!

And a first like from me!



The Baron

Does anybody have evidence to confirm he was a regular in Whitechapel (either for work or 'Leisure' purposes) as opposed to keeping to
his local borough of Bromley by Bow

When i worked in London i lived in Abbey Wood but often went out in London Bridge on a night out, because Abbey Wood is boring and London Bridge and all around that area of bars and restaurants around Borough Market is great fun. Yes and from memory that took about 30 - 40 minutes so perhaps slightly longer time than it took Bury in a cart.

But i tend to think it was the same kind of thing, going from a quiet area of London to a fun area, is a little bit of extra effort but it is worth it.
Expect where as i was just bored and lonely (as people who work away on business often are), Bury was an alcoholic sexual manic on the prowl for prostitutes so he probably had more motivation in fairness.

[Scott Nelson]

Just follow the trail of sawdust. All joking aside, Bury is a very good suspect.

[John Wheat]

Good question. The answer is that I don't think that there's any evidence to that effect. No doubt he would often have been in Whitechapel, as would most people in the East End, at least when places like Spitalfields Market and Petticoat Lane were open - which didn't exactly coincide with the Ripper's favourite times of the day. In the evenings, I can't see much reason that Bury would have frequented Whitechapel on a regular basis as there were plenty of pubs closer to his home in Bromley-by-Bow, and plenty of potential victims for "Bury the Ripper" to choose from.

It has been suggested by some that often Serial Killers prefer to kill slightly away from there immediate surroundings and with Bury owning a horse and cart somewhere like Whitechapel would make an ideal hunting ground for Bury so to speak.

Cheers John

[Wyatt Earp]

1) If Bury was JTR why are their no similar victims in Dundee (by that i mean potential random individuals/vulnerable street walkers at night) ? I dont include Ellen as being a potential JTR victim in this way.

It looks like Bury stopped after the Kelly murder. It’s possible that something spooked him, ultimately resulting in his departure from London. According to Bury’s own statement, his murder of Ellen was not premeditated (it might have arisen out of an argument). Of course, had Bury not been taken into custody and hanged, he could well have resumed murdering women at some point.

2) Can the differences in the murder of Ellen v C5 be explained by the killer knowing the victim ? I can clearly see there may be a case that a killer's would have completely different emotions when killing someone unknown to them (that is a representation of some fantasy or desire) as to someone they have personal relationship with (both good or bad).

Is there any evidence that other serial killers have killed randomly with a certain aggression/desire and have then also killed their own family members/partners in a different manner and exhibiting different emotions ?

I’d question that we are seeing a different “emotion” on display at Princes Street. Bury bashed Ellen in the head, rendering her semi-conscious or unconscious, he strangled her to death with a cord, he mutilated her face, abdomen and genitals, opening her abdomen in the process, and he broke one of her legs to put her into that demented and degrading position in the trunk. He really did a number on her.

[Wyatt Earp]

Hi. I have read various parts of the Dundee Trial press reports regarding William Bury's time in London but have only
seen one account where Bury was actually said to have been 'in' Whitechapel (witnessed assulting his wife at a Public house).

Does anybody have evidence to confirm he was a regular in Whitechapel (either for work or 'Leisure' purposes) as opposed to keeping to
his local borough of Bromley by Bow ?

The 2/12/89 edition of The Scotsman reported that Bury was “well known in Whitechapel” and the 2/14/89 edition of The Dundee Courier reported that Bury was “well known in the locality.” Both of these reports suggest that Bury was a frequent visitor to the area. We are fortunate to have the trial testimony of James Martin, Bury’s former employer, as his description of one and possibly two drunken incidents involving Bury in Whitechapel helps to corroborate the newspaper reports.

For Bury to have been the Whitechapel murderer, he obviously has to have been physically capable of committing the crimes. So what do we know about Bury? According to his Dewsbury prison record, Bury was 5’2”, meaning he was a short man, but according to one newspaper report, Bury seemed to have “a powerful chest and shoulders,” which suggests that he was strong enough to overcome the victims in the case. We know that Bury’s geographical range extended into the Whitechapel area, and we know that as a self-employed sawdust merchant, he was able to set his own hours. All of the available evidence is telling us that, yes, he was physically capable of committing the murders.

[Scott Nelson]

Mackenzie couldn't have been a Ripper victim because Cohen was confined.

[Tanfield]

I have not read as deeply into the Mackenzie murder as some of the C5 and certainly not for a long time - From what i have read its entirely possible she was a JTR victim and that of course, as you say, rules out Bury (and others). I think I will go back and look at all the Mackenzie posts.. In the meantime, on Bury, two other things (plus manner others!!) do keep nagging away and i would welcome some views ;-

1) If Bury was JTR why are their no similar victims in Dundee (by that i mean potential random individuals/vulnerable street walkers at night) ? I dont include Ellen as being a potential JTR victim in this way.

2) Can the differences in the murder of Ellen v C5 be explained by the killer knowing the victim ? I can clearly see there may be a case that a killer's would have completely different emotions when killing someone unknown to them (that is a representation of some fantasy or desire) as to someone they have personal relationship with (both good or bad).

Is there any evidence that other serial killers have killed randomly with a certain aggression/desire and have then also killed their own family members/partners in a different manner and exhibiting different emotions ?

[Herlock Sholmes]

And of course, Bury couldn't have been the ripper if you believe Mckenzie was a ripper victim.


The Baron

Mackenzie couldn’t have been a ripper victim because Druitt was dead

[The Baron]

And of course, Bury couldn't have been the ripper if you believe Mckenzie was a ripper victim.


The Baron

[Sam Flynn]

When we read that Eddowes believed that she knew the identity of the ripper I’ve often wonderful whether this could have been Bury? Pure speculation of course based only on the fact that they were both from the same neck of the woods. Might they have been in the same pub at some point and they picked out the Black Country accent amongst the cockney ones?

Well, there were hundreds of pubs in East London, and Eddowes and Bury lived in different parts of the East End - Bury only having arrived in London a year before the Ripper murders - so the odds of their having become acquainted is very, very small, I'd have thought.

Could Bury have become a regular of Catherine’s?

Bury was in his mid-20s and reasonably solvent, and there were plenty of women closer to his own age, and closer to home than a 40-something resident of Whitechapel. Also, not wishing to come across as Rubenholdesque, there really is no evidence to suggest that Eddowes was herself a regular prostitute, so the chances of Eddowes getting to know Bury even on a "professional" basis is also unlikely.

[Herlock Sholmes]

When we read that Eddowes believed that she knew the identity of the ripper I’ve often wonderful whether this could have been Bury? Pure speculation of course based only on the fact that they were both from the same neck of the woods. Might they have been in the same pub at some point and they picked out the Black Country accent amongst the cockney ones? Could Bury have become a regular of Catherine’s? Absolutely no way of knowing of course