"...but because you are going to hang me you will get nothing out of me..."

[Abby Normal]

Something very similar to this appears in the letter of Oct. 6, 1888 received by a local paper.

http://www.casebook.org/ripper_letters/

Apparently, "Few researchers believe this letter to be real."

{Transcription)

The letter states: "You though your-self very clever I reckon when you informed the police. But you made a mistake if you though I dident see you."

Now, the letter starts with this line and according to the executioner Berry, Wm. H. Bury led with this line, then repeated it.

The sentence structure is almost identical, including a "But" clause following each time.

And the person speaking is what? putting someone in their place? bringing someone who thinks he's clever down a peg or two?

They're just so similar, I can't help wondering if our boy Wm. Henry Bury might have written a letter or two . . .

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

curious

Hi Curious
One could compare the handwriting in the letter you mention to Burys to see if there is a match, no?

Also, your point made me think-the Dear Boss letter starts off in a similar fashion.

[curious]

Berry started his account with, "Picking up my pinioning straps, I walked quickly along, but before I went some one touched my arm and reminded me that I had a certain duty to perform before I brought him out into the corridor - I had to find out if he were 'Jack the Ripper'. When I walked into the cell he looked at me almost defiantly, and then he twisted his face up into a sneer. He was the first to begin the conversation.
'I suppose you think you are clever to hang me?'

I looked at him and waited.
'I suppose you think you are clever because you are going to hang me,' he repeated. 'But because you are to hang me you are not to get anything out of me.'

Something very similar to this appears in the letter of Oct. 6, 1888 received by a local paper.

http://www.casebook.org/ripper_letters/

Apparently, "Few researchers believe this letter to be real."

{Transcription)

The letter states: "You though your-self very clever I reckon when you informed the police. But you made a mistake if you though I dident see you."

Now, the letter starts with this line and according to the executioner Berry, Wm. H. Bury led with this line, then repeated it.

The sentence structure is almost identical, including a "But" clause following each time.

And the person speaking is what? putting someone in their place? bringing someone who thinks he's clever down a peg or two?

They're just so similar, I can't help wondering if our boy Wm. Henry Bury might have written a letter or two . . .

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

curious

To me this is reminiscent of the story that Abberline told Godley "youve caught the Ripper" when he bagged Chapman for the poisonings....when in his writings in I believe 1903, he states that he believed no-one knew who the Ripper killer was.

All the best

[Boggles]

I generally dont like this Berry bashing ive seen in the past, i think he was a great man, contributing as much as he did to humane exectutions.

But his description of bury's hanging does trouble me because he didnt mention him in his book 'my experinces as an executioner' which he wrote before this - (not in the first edition i dug out of the britsih libary at any rate), he mentioned it afterwards in this newspaper report- so why didnt he put it in his book??? if he was that certain he was jack the ripper. Perhaps he only realised it 20 years after the event...

In any case Bury's still the strongest suspect we know about without Berry's contribution imo.

[halomanuk]

I think they probably got lost along with so many other notes and files over the years,they must have made notes at some stage on Bury if only for the trial at least.
Oh well,maybe something will appear one day...frustrating though.

[Moriarty]

Are there no notes at all of the detectives with Berry when he went to pinion Bury ?
They must have made notes at the time which is a shame..
He was a frontrunner of mine for some time and what he put his wife through was a shocker.

I'm not sure they were keen to let on that they were detectives. That might be why there are no notes.

[halomanuk]

Hi there,
He is still up there as one of my more likely suspects from all the 'named' ones.
I don't have a #1 at the moment,but Cutbush is now interesting after the recent files were opened.

[Mrsperfect]

Place Getter?

Are there no notes at all of the detectives with Berry when he went to pinion Bury ?
They must have made notes at the time which is a shame..
He was a frontrunner of mine for some time and what he put his wife through was a shocker.

G'day Halomanuk

So he's no longer a frontrunner then..................why not? (and who's No.1?)

Regards

Eileen

[halomanuk]

Are there no notes at all of the detectives with Berry when he went to pinion Bury ?
They must have made notes at the time which is a shame..
He was a frontrunner of mine for some time and what he put his wife through was a shocker.

[Mrsperfect]

Bill Beadle's Bury

Hi Moriarty

It's no secret that I believe Bury was JtR. It's also no secret that Berry embelished his facts when retelling his tales, thereby compromising the truth and his credibilty.

The facts, as I understand them, are that two detectives were sent to Scotland to interview Bury before the death sentence was carried out. That makes me wonder why they would go to that expense, for a suspect deemed hardly worthy of mention, to many ripperologists.

Sure, many suspects were interviewed in London and at little cost, but a trip to Scotland would have to be justified. They must have wondered whether he could have been JtR. Bury's a fine suspect in my opinion and Beadle's book confirmed it. It doesn't hamper Beadle's credentials that he's a smart man (Member of Mensa) and a copper's son. I would recommend it.

Regards

Eileen

[Moriarty]

You must be a different Stewart Evans from the guy I keep seeing promoting the Tumblety candidacy. Apologies.

[Stewart P Evans]

Unable

Thank you Stewart. Any thoughts on the Beadle book? I know that Bury is not your candidate.

I am afraid that I don't have the Beadle book so I am unable to comment on it. I do not have a 'candidate'.

[Moriarty]

Thank you Stewart. Any thoughts on the Beadle book? I know that Bury is not your candidate.

[Stewart P Evans]

James Berry

I think that this was more a case of the executioner, James Berry, wanting to claim the notorious 'scalp' of Jack the Ripper rather than an actuality.

Berry's account was written post-1910 and he drew on the then extant press coverage of the case. He had, it seems, the fixed idea in mind of getting some sort of statement out of Bury when he went to the condemned cell to pinion the man. Berry started his account with, "Picking up my pinioning straps, I walked quickly along, but before I went some one touched my arm and reminded me that I had a certain duty to perform before I brought him out into the corridor - I had to find out if he were 'Jack the Ripper'. When I walked into the cell he looked at me almost defiantly, and then he twisted his face up into a sneer. He was the first to begin the conversation.
'I suppose you think you are clever to hang me?'
Now there isn't much in that question when you see it in cold print, but had you heard it spoken you would have thought as I did at the time.
The man about to die laid particular emphasis on the last word he spoke. He talked as if he thought himself to be one who stood head and shoulders above every other criminal who had passed through my hands.
Meanwhile the detectives had drawn near, and were straining their ears to catch any word which might fall from his lips.
I looked at him and waited.
'I suppose you think you are clever because you are going to hang me,' he repeated. 'But because you are to hang me you are not to get anything out of me.'
And he had already admitted the justice of his doom."

Bury said no more to Berry, and the hangman went on, "A second afterwards the trapdoor fell and he died with whatever secrets he may have had locked in his own breast."

Unfortunately Berry's accounts are all we have and there is no independent evidence of the presence of two Scotland Yard detectives being present at the execution.

Berry's account ended with, "I had got nothing out of him, as he had said - nothing but the unshakeable belief that his words conveyed the suggestion that he had a history which he believed put him above - and far above - the level of the ordinary criminal.
After the execution was over the Scotland Yard men came at once to see me.
'Well, Mr. Berry,' they said, 'will you tell us what opinion you have about him?'
'Did you hear him make that statement?' I asked.
'Oh, yes, but unfortunately you could construe it two or three ways. It is nothing definite to go on. What do you think yourself?'
'I think it is him right enough.'
'And we agree with you,' replied one of the detectives. 'We know all about his movements in the past, and we are quite satisfied that you have hanged "Jack the Ripper". There will be no more Whitechapel crimes.'
And there has not been one since!"

[Moriarty]

That point was so good I thought I'd make it twice.